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VMI77 wrote:

chasfm11 wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

chasfm11 wrote:I warned him that he could be taken to the ground because of his bag in the right location.

If so, the officer doing it should be fired, perhaps even charged with assault, since there is no basis for physically assaulting someone merely because they're wearing a fanny pack, even if they're big and tough, much less if they're old and frail.

While I agree with you in principal, it still could happen. His is not exactly like this one
http://www.511tactical.com/All-Products ... -Pack.html
but it is the same setup with a large over the shoulder strap and the pouch part positioned under his non-dominant arm. I wouldn't have thought that it would attract any attention but based on the number of times that it has already, the possibility is there.

He is totally oblivious to all gun related matters. He is the amateur radio liaison to clearly posted 30.06 hospital and attends meetings there. The amateur radio club meetings in the PD/court building (there is no security checkpoint prior to the meeting room) and going to events like the EP one in the high school pose risks to him that he does not understand. I know that he has gone to Grapevine Mills Mall, too. If I were to develop a set of high risk places for him to visit, I could probably not build one better than the one that he already has developed completely innocently. I'm afraid that it would only take a MWAG report from citizen who recognized the pouch for a bad chain of events to start.

If that's justified, then there is no reason they couldn't do the same to anyone without their shirt tucked in, wearing a coat, or with a bulging pocket.

Except that none of those is likely to trigger a MWAG call from average people. As we all here understand, people don't pay that much attention. The over the shoulder bag admittedly stands out a lot more. Most men don't wear them so it draws that second glance, just like a fanny pack might do. Most who do give a fanny pack a second glance would likely assess the wearer. In the OP, I won't have expected a woman to be given more than a second glance because many women seem to wear fanny packs. I've seen a number of ladies with them on. But all of those were significantly smaller than would have been needed to cover even a small gun.

I have a tactical fanny pack that I wear in the front. I've had it on a number of times while traveling. I don't want to wear a holster when I'm driving more than 8 hours but I'm not going to get out at Interstate rest areas and leave my gun in the vehicle. I can jump out and strap the fanny pack on in almost one motion. I walked right by a Mississippi officer at welcome center and he never batted at eye. The fact that he was there in the first place told me that having my gun on me while walking the dogs was a good idea. But I'm "of an age" where a bit of eccentricity like a fanny pack is probably not going to go beyond a 2nd glance. And my fanny pack does not appear to have a pocket big enough to house the P250 Compact that is in in.

My friend's shoulder pack fails several of those same tests for a second glance. It IS obviously big enough to hold a hand gun. It sports a logo that says that is exactly what it is intended for. He wears it as one might if it did contain a gun. While he appears older and more frail than I (and thus obviously not a gang-banger), I have recognized his pack on his shoulder before he is close enough to recognize his face. I suspect that others who are paying attention could do the same.

I'm willing to bet that if I wore my fanny pack to a professional sporting event (sans gun), I would be challenged for it, even though such items are normally searched upon entry. For me, it is driven by context. My same fanny pack would not draw a response from a uniformed LEO if I were to wear it into Wal-Mart.

VMI77 wrote:

chasfm11 wrote:I warned him that he could be taken to the ground because of his bag in the right location.

If so, the officer doing it should be fired, perhaps even charged with assault, since there is no basis for physically assaulting someone merely because they're wearing a fanny pack, even if they're big and tough, much less if they're old and frail.

While I agree with you in principal, it still could happen. His is not exactly like this one
http://www.511tactical.com/All-Products ... -Pack.html
but it is the same setup with a large over the shoulder strap and the pouch part positioned under his non-dominant arm. I wouldn't have thought that it would attract any attention but based on the number of times that it has already, the possibility is there.

He is totally oblivious to all gun related matters. He is the amateur radio liaison to clearly posted 30.06 hospital and attends meetings there. The amateur radio club meetings in the PD/court building (there is no security checkpoint prior to the meeting room) and going to events like the EP one in the high school pose risks to him that he does not understand. I know that he has gone to Grapevine Mills Mall, too. If I were to develop a set of high risk places for him to visit, I could probably not build one better than the one that he already has developed completely innocently. I'm afraid that it would only take a MWAG report from citizen who recognized the pouch for a bad chain of events to start.

Keith B wrote:

chasfm11 wrote:OK. Here is a WWYD scenario.

You are working security at an emergency preparedness seminar sponsored by a Federal Congressman. The event is being held at a high school on a Saturday. There are 100s of people moving among about 50 booths of information and a demonstration by the handlers of the rescue dogs that were used in West, TX after the explosion is in progress.

A frail looking retirement aged man makes his way from the parking lot into the school's lobby where the booths are set up with at logoed 5.11 bag slung over his shoulder. He seems a bit confused and is looking around.

This is one of the specific situations. He was looking for me as we agreed to meet there.

I would help him find you and that he didn't need any other assistance.

Unfortunately, one of the LEOs who approached him didn't take the same path.

OK. Here is a WWYD scenario.

You are working security at an emergency preparedness seminar sponsored by a Federal Congressman. The event is being held at a high school on a Saturday. There are 100s of people moving among about 50 booths of information and a demonstration by the handlers of the rescue dogs that were used in West, TX after the explosion is in progress.

A frail looking retirement aged man makes his way from the parking lot into the school's lobby where the booths are set up with at logoed 5.11 bag slung over his shoulder. He seems a bit confused and is looking around.

This is one of the specific situations. He was looking for me as we agreed to meet there.

EEllis wrote:That is just bizarre. I carry a gun, have that kind of tac gear and heck walk around wearing a 5.11 cap and no one has ever said anything to me at all with or without gun. I guess with enough people and enough encounters almost every interaction occurs eventually but I just have a hard time wrapping my head around how something like that could happen.

I'm guessing that the difference is physical profiling. You probably look like an off duty LEO. He definitely does not. Because of his illness, he does not carry himself physically well and seeing that kind of a person with a tactical bag, particularly in some of the environments where he goes, is probably the catalyst for the approaches. He attends an amateur radio club meeting that is held in the Southlake, TX complex - which also houses the PD and a court.

My point in posting the situation is that fanny packs/ tactical packs can attract attention. Not all of that attention is good.

I have a friend with a degenerative muscle disease. He cannot reach into his pockets very well to retrieve things like his wallet so he looked online for something small that he could carry over his shoulder to hold his stuff. The only kind of gun that he owns is a Airsoft one that he uses at home so he really knows almost nothing about any other type of weapon. Unfortunately for him, his online search for an over shoulder case netted him a 5.11 pack.

He has been approached at least a dozen separate times. Several of them were fairly cordial and the officers involved only asked questions in a non-threatening manner. Several others have been belligerent and demanded that he leave where he was without even asking about the contents of his push pack. It wasn't until I explained to him that he had bought a case that was fairly easily recognized as one which is made to conceal a pistol did he understand his treatment. If you were to watch him for more than 30 seconds, it is obvious that he has physical difficulties and that carrying a firearm is probably the last thing that he would be doing. The push pack really works well for him but he is very careful now about where he wears it. I warned him that he could be taken to the ground because of his bag in the right location.