Exactly, in some situations "Silence is golden" but in others, contacting and informing local Govt about their error is good if done the right way .... not like a "test case attitude" nor a "don't step on my rights" attitude" but they all seem to understand saving money and that they should correct ordinances which violate State law and could be costly ....speedsix wrote:... just making a person leave where they had a right to be because they were legally carrying a firearm is a violation of rights...haven't read any case law about that...only cases where an illegal arrest took place...but it needs to be changed at any rate...and you're doing a good thing a good way...
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Return to “Verizon Theater GP - Pending”
- Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:46 am
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: Verizon Theater GP - Pending
- Replies: 66
- Views: 17237
Re: Verizon Theater GP - Pending
- Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:18 am
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: Verizon Theater GP - Pending
- Replies: 66
- Views: 17237
Re: Verizon Theater GP - Pending
Most cities really do; the cost of defending a wrongful arrest and defending a Federal civil rights suit can be prohibitive; as far as I remember every city I ever contacted updated/corrected their Parks (or other) ordinances after becoming aware they were violating the specific State Laws cited in my E-mail above..Dragonfighter wrote:Steve Alcorn wrote me back today asking for my opinion and input on the policy, what is wrong with it, etc. I am impressed and will respond. I think they really want to wrap their collective brain around this.
Parks, city owned buildings, property etc.
Most just need an addendum/Amend ordinance/policy to each place they restrict firearms (ordinance/Website/policy/rules), to add something like "Exception: Nothing in the above shall be presumed/construed to pertain to Concealed Handgun Licensees in possession of the type of handgun licensed to be carried by Chapter 411 of the Government Code..."
I haven't had coffee, but similarly worded ...
- Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:09 pm
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: Verizon Theater GP - Pending
- Replies: 66
- Views: 17237
Re: Verizon Theater GP - Pending
Not trying to hold weight, it puts them on noticesjfcontrol wrote:Are you saying you didn't actually sign the letter?RPB wrote:Ooops, guess I forgot to say what city I am a taxpayer/voter in ,,,, still, I'm concerned
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=41993&p=505784&hil ... er#p505789" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Also, did you actually refer to the "sexretary"?
In my view, an unsigned letter does not hold much weight.
I signed it but as a concerned taxpayer/voter, which I am ... I have no intention of giving my name and having to produce ID sometime and being singled out
The city has now been put on notice and any violation of civil rights is a negligence action.
Purpose of the E-mail was 1) put them on notice 2) notify EVERYONE so it becomes water cooler talk and one person notified may change ordinances ... it's worked, an almost identical letter (except whichever ordinance) in several other cities, parks ord were re-written, signs removed etc in several cities after they got that notice.
and .... my darn auto spell checker failed me the c is next to the x .... still, maybe she'll read it now
WE know it's cheaper to comply with the law, cities which figure that out, change their laws to comply with State law; they've been put on notice now and it's up to them if they want to take the risk of non-compliance; most cities in Central Texas fixed ordinances etc after being put on notice.... the city Attorney wanted to get paid for doing something
I don't live in that city, so signing my name would "hold no weight" anyway ... I'm just a concerned city taxpayer and voter, just in another city.
If someone living in that city wants to send it too and sign their name, ok, but it still put them on notice.
Horseshoe Bay area used to have no possession of a firearm in city limits laws .... they got put on notice, ... laws are now fixed. Dripping Springs, lots of cities had outdated ordinances which "concerned" me .... most are now fixed.
- Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:32 am
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: Verizon Theater GP - Pending
- Replies: 66
- Views: 17237
Re: Verizon Theater GP - Pending
Ooops, guess I forgot to say what city I am a taxpayer/voter in ,,,, still, I'm concerned
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=41993&p=505784&hil ... er#p505789" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=41993&p=505784&hil ... er#p505789" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:27 am
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: Verizon Theater GP - Pending
- Replies: 66
- Views: 17237
Re: Verizon Theater GP - Pending
I went ahead and sent the Mayor, each councilman, city managers, city secretary, city atty etc etc etc this:
salcorn@gptx.org;mgalicia@gptx.org;alopez@GPTX.org;pnaswort@gptx.org;dpostell@gptx.org;pmarcum@gptx.org; cdimaggi@gptx.org;gcolvin@gptx.org;mhepworth@gptx.org;cdimaggi@gptx.org;rjensen@gptx.org;billthorn@swbell.net;jswaffor@gptx.org;tshotwell@gptx.org;ggiessner@gptx.org;
TO:
Mayor,
City Managers
City Attorney,
City Secretary,
City Police, (via City Sexretary)
Each City Council member.
I'm trying to save the City money and am concerned about the City currently violating a State law which could lead to a Federal Lawsuit which would be very expensive to defend.
Excluding Courts, most City owned (Property, Library, PARKS, buildings) are not allowed to prohibit concealed handgun carry licensees, reference to Texas Penal Code Section 46, specifically sections 46.02, 46.03, and 46.035 in the link below for your convenience. http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... htm#46.035" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Furthermore, Texas Penal Code 1.08 specifically prohibits municipal and County governments, including any subdivision or agency from enacting or enforcing laws governing conduct reserved for state law. http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... m/PE.1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sec. 1.08. PREEMPTION. No governmental subdivision or agency may enact or enforce a law that makes any conduct covered by this code an offense subject to a criminal penalty. This section shall apply only as long as the law governing the conduct proscribed by this code is legally enforceable.
The State further asserts its sole authority to regulate concealed carry, superseding any municipal ordinance or law.
Local Government Code 229.001, specifically denies cities the right to regulate Concealed Handgun Licensees while granting cities the right to regulate some use of arms by unlicensed individuals, notice the "other than" language in the Statue below: http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... LG.229.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sec. 229.001. FIREARMS; EXPLOSIVES. (a) A municipality may not adopt regulations relating to the transfer, private ownership, keeping, transportation, licensing, or registration of firearms, ammunition, or firearm supplies.
(b) Subsection (a) does not affect the authority a municipality has under another law to:
(6) regulate the carrying of a firearm by a person other than a person licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, at a:
(A) public park;
(B) public meeting of a municipality, county, or other governmental body;
(C) political rally, parade, or official political meeting; or
(D) nonfirearms-related school, college, or professional athletic event.
And lastly, government owned buildings such as the (Property, Library, PARKS, buildings, civic center) are specifically prohibited from banning the carrying of guns by CHL holders via the PC 30.06 trespassing statute (the only way that private businesses can ban CHL in Texas).
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... .htm#30.06" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Texas PC 30.06 (e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.
Since a "good faith" arrest can NOT be made for anything which is NOT illegal, I hope the officers, sheriffs, Constables are aware of the above, and trained/informed accordingly, so the Governments don't waste money due to a Federal §1983 civil rights lawsuit.
The City of Grand Parie violates the abovementioned laws in the following ways:
http://library.municode.com/showDocumen ... 42&docID=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sec. 18-23. - Permits for certain events required.
In addition to any other provision of this chapter that requires the obtaining of a permit prior to engaging in a given activity, no person in any park shall conduct, operate, present, manage or take part in any of the following activities unless a permit is obtained from the director prior to the start of the activity:
(1) Any organized sporting event using park ballgame facilities which are designated for permit use only;
(2) Any exhibit, dramatic performance, play, motion picture, radio or television broadcast, fair, circus, carnival, musical event or any similar event;
(3) Any public meeting, assembly, parade, ceremony, address, speech, political meeting or other gathering composed of one hundred (100) or more persons;
(4) Any use of any park facility by a group of persons to the exclusion of others;
(5) Any use involving amplified sound;
(6) Any use involving firearms or guns as defined in section 18-29; or
Sec. 18-29. - Firearms and explosives.
(a)Unless authorized by permit pursuant to section 18-23, no person other than a peace officer shall possess, exhibit or display a firearm in or [a] recreation facility or park building in any park in the city. For the purpose of this section, the word "firearm" shall mean any device designed, made or adapted to expel a projectile through a barrel by using the energy generated by an explosion, burning substance, compressed air, compressed gas, spring device, or any device readily convertible to that use.
(b) No person shall discharge a rifle, sidearm, shotgun or any other hunting device within, across or on any park.
(c) It shall be unlawful for any person to possess, discharge, fire, ignite or explode any explosive of any nature, including but not limited to, firecrackers, all types of fireworks and dynamite upon, across, into or on to any city park without prior written approval from the director.
Additionally, the "policy" at Verizon Theater violates the above cited laws by threatening to arrest Concealed Handgun carriers who have been licensed by the State.
Since a "good faith" arrest can NOT be made for anything which is NOT illegal, I hope the officers, sheriffs, Constables are aware of the above, and trained/informed accordingly, so the Governments don't waste money due to a Federal §1983 civil rights lawsuit.
Signed a concerned City Taxpayer and voter.
salcorn@gptx.org;mgalicia@gptx.org;alopez@GPTX.org;pnaswort@gptx.org;dpostell@gptx.org;pmarcum@gptx.org; cdimaggi@gptx.org;gcolvin@gptx.org;mhepworth@gptx.org;cdimaggi@gptx.org;rjensen@gptx.org;billthorn@swbell.net;jswaffor@gptx.org;tshotwell@gptx.org;ggiessner@gptx.org;
TO:
Mayor,
City Managers
City Attorney,
City Secretary,
City Police, (via City Sexretary)
Each City Council member.
I'm trying to save the City money and am concerned about the City currently violating a State law which could lead to a Federal Lawsuit which would be very expensive to defend.
Excluding Courts, most City owned (Property, Library, PARKS, buildings) are not allowed to prohibit concealed handgun carry licensees, reference to Texas Penal Code Section 46, specifically sections 46.02, 46.03, and 46.035 in the link below for your convenience. http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... htm#46.035" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Furthermore, Texas Penal Code 1.08 specifically prohibits municipal and County governments, including any subdivision or agency from enacting or enforcing laws governing conduct reserved for state law. http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... m/PE.1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sec. 1.08. PREEMPTION. No governmental subdivision or agency may enact or enforce a law that makes any conduct covered by this code an offense subject to a criminal penalty. This section shall apply only as long as the law governing the conduct proscribed by this code is legally enforceable.
The State further asserts its sole authority to regulate concealed carry, superseding any municipal ordinance or law.
Local Government Code 229.001, specifically denies cities the right to regulate Concealed Handgun Licensees while granting cities the right to regulate some use of arms by unlicensed individuals, notice the "other than" language in the Statue below: http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... LG.229.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sec. 229.001. FIREARMS; EXPLOSIVES. (a) A municipality may not adopt regulations relating to the transfer, private ownership, keeping, transportation, licensing, or registration of firearms, ammunition, or firearm supplies.
(b) Subsection (a) does not affect the authority a municipality has under another law to:
(6) regulate the carrying of a firearm by a person other than a person licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, at a:
(A) public park;
(B) public meeting of a municipality, county, or other governmental body;
(C) political rally, parade, or official political meeting; or
(D) nonfirearms-related school, college, or professional athletic event.
And lastly, government owned buildings such as the (Property, Library, PARKS, buildings, civic center) are specifically prohibited from banning the carrying of guns by CHL holders via the PC 30.06 trespassing statute (the only way that private businesses can ban CHL in Texas).
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... .htm#30.06" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Texas PC 30.06 (e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.
Since a "good faith" arrest can NOT be made for anything which is NOT illegal, I hope the officers, sheriffs, Constables are aware of the above, and trained/informed accordingly, so the Governments don't waste money due to a Federal §1983 civil rights lawsuit.
The City of Grand Parie violates the abovementioned laws in the following ways:
http://library.municode.com/showDocumen ... 42&docID=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sec. 18-23. - Permits for certain events required.
In addition to any other provision of this chapter that requires the obtaining of a permit prior to engaging in a given activity, no person in any park shall conduct, operate, present, manage or take part in any of the following activities unless a permit is obtained from the director prior to the start of the activity:
(1) Any organized sporting event using park ballgame facilities which are designated for permit use only;
(2) Any exhibit, dramatic performance, play, motion picture, radio or television broadcast, fair, circus, carnival, musical event or any similar event;
(3) Any public meeting, assembly, parade, ceremony, address, speech, political meeting or other gathering composed of one hundred (100) or more persons;
(4) Any use of any park facility by a group of persons to the exclusion of others;
(5) Any use involving amplified sound;
(6) Any use involving firearms or guns as defined in section 18-29; or
Sec. 18-29. - Firearms and explosives.
(a)Unless authorized by permit pursuant to section 18-23, no person other than a peace officer shall possess, exhibit or display a firearm in or [a] recreation facility or park building in any park in the city. For the purpose of this section, the word "firearm" shall mean any device designed, made or adapted to expel a projectile through a barrel by using the energy generated by an explosion, burning substance, compressed air, compressed gas, spring device, or any device readily convertible to that use.
(b) No person shall discharge a rifle, sidearm, shotgun or any other hunting device within, across or on any park.
(c) It shall be unlawful for any person to possess, discharge, fire, ignite or explode any explosive of any nature, including but not limited to, firecrackers, all types of fireworks and dynamite upon, across, into or on to any city park without prior written approval from the director.
Additionally, the "policy" at Verizon Theater violates the above cited laws by threatening to arrest Concealed Handgun carriers who have been licensed by the State.
Since a "good faith" arrest can NOT be made for anything which is NOT illegal, I hope the officers, sheriffs, Constables are aware of the above, and trained/informed accordingly, so the Governments don't waste money due to a Federal §1983 civil rights lawsuit.
Signed a concerned City Taxpayer and voter.
- Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:12 am
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: Verizon Theater GP - Pending
- Replies: 66
- Views: 17237
Re: Verizon Theater GP - Pending
I see Grand Prairie needs to update the Parks ordinance too