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wgoforth wrote: Now to be clear, they did point out that no-gun signage does not prevent crime and even encourages...it was the form of signage that they believed enforceable to be the issue. All said they wished there were not any signs. One student was a lawyer, and I pointed out the wording of 30.06 stating that a business MUST use this wording. I thought SURELY a lawyer can read the law, he shook his head no and said that it only meant what the business was to display, and that just because they failed to do it right didn't mean we could.. I guess he was thinking along the line like if a bar fails to put up a 51% we still can't carry in a bar. Again, I do NOT agree with what I heard and saw in this, but making all aware that this is going to become an issue if it is being taught to and believed by instructors.

wgoforth wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:

baldeagle wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:The good folks at Bullet Trap teach CHL classes and work under the assumption that you know the laws. That sign does not apply to you if you have a CHL. That sign is to keep folks from coming in with loaded(UNCONCEALED) firearms. It is amazing how many well meaning folks will walk in with a loaded gun, whip it out of the box and ask them what it is worth or if they can "fix it". Again... this is NOT speculation... they don't mean for folks with a CHL to disarm in the parking lot or anywhere else.

Well, that's a bit irritating. The sign should then read "Unless you are a CHL holder, no loaded weapons." or something similar. The sign is misleading.

I am not trying to be a wise cracker but we should all know that the sign does not apply to us as CHL holders. The signage issues are covered in all CHL classes. There is only one sign that applies to us. All others don't. For me, there is nothing misleading about a "no loaded guns allowed" or a "gun busters" sign at any business. This one is no different.

Ehh, not so much I am afraid. I had no idea until going through CHL instructor training this week that instructors are being taught that all no gun signage tells you the intent and should be obeyed. During breaks, I talked with various other students about the matter and most seemed to have agreed that you have been served notice. In fact, the Captain went as far as to say that if a sign is non-compliant, call it in to the DPS... and that even if the business did not do what was proper, you are to respect their signage intent. While I do not agree, it is incorrect to assume that "the signage issues are covered in all CHL classes" to the correct view. What is disturbing, is that there were 81 instructors coming out of this class...and many more been/being taught this view.

baldeagle wrote:The Garland Shooting Range allows you to CC to your station, then unholster and prepare for your shooting practice. I know because I called and asked them BEFORE I went there. The Bullet Trap has a clearly visible sign that says no loaded weapons are allowed. I'm surprised you think you can carry a loaded weapon into their store, CC or not. If a store has a policy that they don't allow loaded weapons, then you disrespect the store by carrying a loaded weapon. The store owner or staff has the right to ask you to leave immediately, and if you don't comply, you can be charged with trespassing. After all, it's a private business. They can make any rules they want, and you can choose to go elsewhere if you think their rules are goofy, silly, ridiculous, offensive or whatever.

If I go to the Bullet Trap to shoot my EDC, I unload and remove the magazine in the car before entering the store. As CHL holders our primary duty is to uphold the law in all situations. That means we either obey the wishes of business owners or we don't shop there. A shop that has a sign that says no loaded weapons allowed has made their intentions crystal clear. It has nothing to do with 30.06 or our rights as CHL holders.