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srothstein wrote:How did 2A rights become a conservative position?

Bingo, that's what I'm talking about srothstein. Judging from your handle/username, you're probably Jewish. I'm glad that you're Jewish, because I also wonder why the heck do most Jews that I know oppose 2nd Amendment rights? It seems to me that most Jews should be all for 2nd Amendment rights. After all, if 6 million Jews had guns in WWII, wouldn't the children of 6 million Jews still be alive today?

No, I don't expect to change the way people think and vote in one conversation. It takes many conversations. Rome wasn't won in a day. Talk to your friends and make new friends. Let's get out there and win some hearts and minds, people.

I know how to convert women to support 2nd Amendment causes, but how do I convert Jews? I have a Jewish friend who is vehemently anti-2nd Amendment. How would I win his heart and mind?

Thanks for the advice, srothstein,

marksiwel,

I agree with your point, but I disagree with the specific off-topic issues you propose we support. However, I do see the relevance of 2nd amendment rights, 1st amendment rights, and other constitutional rights. You might be surprised to find that the whole liberal vs conservative or dem vs rep thing is simply a ruse to divide honest, hard working Americans. Divided we fall, united we stand. It is just a divide and conquer ruse created by the power elite to control this country. After all, how many purely 100% liberals or conservatives do you know? For example, as much as a conservative I am, I have let my liberal friends persuade me that the death penalty is wrong, not in principle, but in practice. This is because they gave me convincing evidence that up to 1 in 7 of those convicted on death row were innocent (1). That's the percentage that was found innocent when they first discovered DNA testing. There are undoubtedly more innocents on death row right now, but they just cannot be exonerated by DNA evidence. Besides, didn't the constitution, which protect our right to bear arms also state that we should be free from cruel and unusual punishment? (8th amendment right) So, I'm not 100% conservative. My liberal friends are not 100% liberal because I've persuaded them to support 2nd Amendment rights. marksiwel also pointed out that he is unhappy about the unpatriotic Patriot Act that allows unconstitutional searches, seizures, and wiretaps without a warrant. (4th amendment right)

I don't think the NRA necessarily needs to go out and march in a gay rights parade, however I get his point. The NRA should target recruitment of minorities, whether they be racial minorities or sexual preference minorities. After all, in case you haven't noticed, the president is a minority. Ignoring minorities will cause us to lose the next election. Broadening the scope of the NRA to protect the bill of rights and not just be about gun owners' rights would broaden its appeal to all honest, hard working Americans. The reason that I support the NRA is not because I'm a "gun nut". I own ZERO guns (my wife forbids it). I support the NRA because like Wayne LaPierre says, "This is the right that protects all your other rights." Your 2nd amendment right is the weakest right on the bill of rights. If they were to blatantly take away all our rights and establish tyranny, rest assured that the right to bear arms would be the first right that the power elite will take away. The last time I went to a Friends of the NRA meeting, I observed zero blacks and zero hispanics. I know that none of us at the meeting are racist, so what's the problem? The Patriot Act would've generated a sea of protesters camped out in University campuses and in D.C. if this were the 60's. Where are the protesters now? Where are they? The reason that so few are protesting is because we Americans are DIVIDED. NOBODY CARES ABOUT GUN OWNERS' rights but gun nuts. Nobody cares about wrongfully convicted people on death row but convicts. Nobody cares about the government using illegal wiretapping except for those being wiretapped. However, everyone cares about CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS, which includes right to bear arms (2nd A), freedom from cruel and unusual punishment (8th A), and protection from illegal searches and seizure (4th A). If the NRA were to assemble a crack legal team to question the Patriot Act in the court system, if the NRA were to organize a protest for a high profile innocent man on death row, and other activities to defend not just 2nd A rights but CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS, then you might be surprised to find that its membership would double overnight. After all, we Americans live in America because we enjoy these constitutional rights. To divide ourselves to support only one constitutional right or the other is equivalent to dividing ourselves to be easily conquered and subjugated by the power elite.

I mean, if there is no power elite suppressing our 2nd A rights, amongst other rights, then why are there only 2 parties? As varied a melting pot of a country we are, shouldn't there be more major parties? Why was the Libertarian candidate ASSAULTED when he tried to join the presidential debates on T.V.? Even though I am a conservative Rep, as a constitution supporting American, I think this is WRONG. We are only truly democratic if the voters heard EVERYTHING before deciding, whether the views are Libertarian, Democrat, or Republican. I invite all HARD WORKING, PATRIOTIC AMERICANS UNITE together, liberal, conservative, and everything in-between to take back our constitutional rights through united peaceful protests.

1. American Civil Liberties Union article:
http://www.speakout.com/activism/issue_ ... 31b-1.html
Please note that this article has some mistakes. For example, it is not 8 percent of 100,000 people will be murdered, but 8 out of 100,000. Here is the real and correct statistic: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_01.html . Even though some of their statistics are sloppy, I do get their point. Their point is that some of those on death row are innocent. This was proved by the invention of DNA testing. The justice system is made of people. People make mistakes. Even if only one innocent person on death row is innocent, we should not have the death penalty because death is irreversible. More conservative statistics found 2% to be innocent, but sorry I forgot where I saw this statistic. The point is, there are innocent people on death row.

P.S. You might be surprised to find that this is NOT off-topic. Finding ways to broaden support for our 2nd A rights and winning the next election is definitely NOT off-topic.

P.P.S. Why should a conservative Rep like me support the freedom for gays to be gay? Why should a gay man in San Francisco who's never touched a gun support my freedom to bear arms? You might be surprised to find that taking away a fellow American's freedom only makes ALL of us that much less free.

OMG, the healthcare bill passed?

May God have mercy on us all.... Socialism and communism lite, here we come....

In order to win the next election, we have to do more than just preach to the choir. We have to convert our liberal friends. Here's how I converted a flaming liberal friend of mine to support the 2nd amendment. You may copy me, do something similar, or think something up original for yourself. The key to successful conversion is to have them think that they came up with the idea themselves. DO NOT preach to them nor pound them with facts. Allow them to arrive at the conclusion themselves emotionally. Without delving too much into psychology and sales techniques, the short version is that people make decisions on an emotional basis and then use logic to rationalize it. Very few people actually make logical decisions, so the most successful conversion is on an emotional appeal that allows them to arrive at the conclusion themselves, not a conclusion that is thrusted upon them.

I have this female friend (let's call her "E") and we went out for dinner together. This friend of mine is a flaming liberal who voted for 0bama. The topic of conversation was stalkers. I told her that I have this friend of a friend who was being stalked by an ex-boyfriend who threatened to kill her. "She should get a restraining order," was E's response. "She did, but it only infuriated him. He beat her up, robbed her, and warned her that if she didn't cancel the restraining order, he's gonna kill her," I replied. "Well, he beat her up, so she should go to the police and have him arrested," E replied. "She did, but he's out on bail and she's scared as heck," I answered. "What do you think she should do?" I innocently asked. E thought for a long second..., "I'm opposed to guns, but in this case, I think she should get one. Although most guns are used in crime and suicides, I think that in this situation, the benefits outweigh the risks." "Well, a concealed handgun license would take up to 9 months to get approved (my CHL took 9 months to arrive)," I replied. "Then, she should hire an armed guard to guard her at her workplace and make sure that nobody follows her home (this stalked friend of mine is a high-paid exec)," she replied. "I agree, but what if something like that happens to you? You can't afford an armed guard," I said. Silence. "You know what you should do? You should get a concealed handgun license as an insurance policy. That way, if something like this ever happens to you, you'll have the CHL when you need it, so you don't have to wait 9 months," I said. E nods her head in agreement, but she hesitates, "Well, guns are dangerous. I don't want to buy a gun." "No, you don't have to buy a gun. That's not what I suggested that you do. I suggest that you buy an insurance policy against stalkers and rapists. Just get the concealed handgun license so that it's there if you need it. Get the CHL without buying a gun. You can get a gun at any time, but the CHL takes months." She nods her head in agreement. "If you'd like, I can do you a favor. We can go to the range tomorrow and I'll teach you firearms safety. Then, I can teach you how to shoot an auto pistol without jamming it," I said. I explained that half the ladies in my CHL class had to re-take the shooting part of the exam because they jammed their Glocks (I didn't know that was possible). They flinched and limp-wristed. "Sure, I'd like that," she replied. "Let's go tomorrow. I'll pick you up at X o'clock," I said. "O.K." she answered.

Yay! Now, I'm hoping that she'll enjoy shooting so that she'll be a convert. At the very least, she'll be a CHL holder and elected officials look at things like the number of NRA members and CHL holders before voting on any gun control laws. So, whether she knows it or not, she's now supporting 2nd amendment rights right alongside me even though she's an 0bama voting flaming liberal!

Folks, we have to convert our liberal friends or our 2nd amendment rights will be taken away from us forever. Don't believe it can happen? Look at Australia, Great Britain, and ALL THE OTHER COUNTRIES ON PLANET EARTH. America is the last remaining country that still has the right to bear arms. We are the last holdout. I invite you to suddenly realize that you have to convert your liberal friends and acquaintances. Failure to do so will mean our doom.

BTW, you know what would make a perfect holiday gift? Get your gun owning friends or family members who are not members of the NRA the gift of a NRA membership and/or a TSRA membership. Elected officials also look at the number of NRA and/or TSRA members before voting on any gun ban laws. The more members these organizations have, the more clout they'll have in Washington. NRA membership includes a neat NRA baseball cap and a subscription to a cool gun magazine.

C'mon people, let's get rolling so that we'll win the next election!



P.S. Notice how I did NOT argue with her point that "guns are used in murders and suicides." Nobody likes an arguer and nobody likes to have ideas forced upon them. People only like ideas that they thought of themselves (or think that they thought of themselves). Notice how I manipulated her to come up with the idea to buy a gun. She thought of it and I did not mention it to her. Furthermore, the idea of getting firearms instruction appealed to her on an emotional, not logical level. Not only did this approach work with this female friend of mine, but I also used this approach to get my flaming liberal wife to agree to sign up for a CHL class. My wife is still won't allow me to have guns in the house and my liberal female friend still won't buy a gun, but at least I've persuaded them to support 2nd Amendment rights by signing up for CHL classes. Yay!