TexasCHLforum.com

On a completely random note, this article popped up today in my news feed:

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/30/3081.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (link to download the original source report is included at the link)

Report Warns Of Private Car Repo Dangers
National Consumer Law Center report outlines concerns with private automobile seizure industry.

Private companies that repossess automobiles without the involvement of law enforcement are creating potentially deadly situations, a report released Thursday by the National Consumer Law Center (NCLC) warned. The Boston, Massachusetts-based non-profit legal advocacy group examined the consequences of turning car seizures over to private firms, particularly during the recent economic downturn.

"In just the past three years, the publicly reported toll from self-help repossessions is shocking," John W. Van Alst and Rick Jurgens wrote in the NCLC report. "Six deaths. Dozens of injuries and arrests. Pistols, rifles, shotguns, knives, fists and automobiles wielded as weapons. And, in at least three cases, repo agents towed away automobiles with children under the age of nine inside."

An estimated 1.9 million repossessions take place each year. In 33 states, no license or background check is required for the companies that repossess cars on behalf of lenders and car dealers. This means convicted felons can, and do, operate repo businesses.

The NCLC report takes issue with the practice of allowing a lender to unilaterally seize a car from its owner for missing a payment without first having a neutral third-party judge or administrative officer verify the claim.

"With the ability to repossess on a whim, dealers and lenders can use repossessions not simply as a means of retaking collateral when a debtor defaults," the report stated. "Lenders can also use the threat of repossession to intimidate consumers. For example, the prospect of having a car seized can be used to keep a consumer from asserting the right to withhold payment for a warranty violation or other breach of contract in the sale of the car or the right to revoke acceptance of a car with substantial defects."

The report cited court documents that showed one major repo company forced its agents to work up to 90 hours a week without overtime pay. "Each of you have the ability to do WHATEVER it takes to pick up more cars," an email sent to employees urged. Those who failed to meet a minimum weekly quota of twenty cars were forced to work longer hours. The pressure to take extreme actions in several cases has resulted in violence both against vehicle owners and the repo men themselves.

NCLC recommended that states adopt laws that require lenders to provide notice and provide car owners with a set period to remedy missed payments. It also recommended that lenders obtain a court order prior to seizing a vehicle. This, the group says, would allow motorists to have the opportunity to have a chance to challenge an improper seizure in a neutral setting. The report also urged that repo companies be licensed to prohibit the hiring of individuals with violent criminal histories.

Mr. mctowalot, it was not my intention to scold you at all. Like austinrealtor said, I was just trying to focus on the legality of stopping a repo man from taking property, and his authority to use any force to do so.

I agree with your earlier statement (I think it was you; if not, I stand corrected) that "the towing lobby is alive and well in Texas". That's why tow trucks prowl the Houston "tow zones" looking for broken down or out-of-gas vehicles they can hook up and charge outrageous fees to recover.

I intend no offense to you, at all. You sound like a hard-working man conducting legitimate work and protecting private property interests by removing unwanted cars that are parked contrary to the property owner's posted rules. I'm 100% behind you on that, because I believe in property rights.

I do not support government-enforced special classes that result in undue profit. If a driver is arrested, he should be able to summon either someone to drive his vehicle, or the tow company of his choosing to take his car wherever he chooses. "Next truck in the rotation" hauling a car to the impound lot is government-backed extortion. It's highly profitable, which is why the "towing lobby" can hire lobbyists.

mctowalot wrote:My initials are M.C., and I tow - a lot. Hence the screen name.
While I don't do any repo's (that I know of anyway) I do tow vehicles that are parked in reserved spots or parking lots or areas that require a permit of some sort to park in. Many times I am told I don't have the right to "take someone's property" ie: the vehicle that should not be parked from where I'm towing it from. So I hope in your eyes my type of towing fits in this thread.
In my gig, I'm actually "giving" my client the use of their property (the parking spot that they paid big bucks to have reserved for them) by removing someone else's property (their car that should not have parked in my clients parking space). Thankfully, the laws regarding all of this are laid out cut and dry as the tow lobby is alive and well in Texas.

I don't think anyone is arguing that a repo man or towing outfit has the legal right to take the property -- they do. This thread started about the legality of stopping someone from taking your property, even if it turns out to be a repo man with the legal authority to seize it.

You, like the repo man, have a civil law authority to seize and remove property. But you don't have any authority to seize or remove it by using force against a person. It's illegal for you to tow a vehicle with a person inside... what are you going to do if they hop in and lock the doors? It's not legal for you to physically restrain and move a person who is in the way, so what are you going to do if they pull a "we shall not be moved" human chain around the car and/or your truck?

You've got the legal authority to do your job, but you don't have any legal authority to initiate force against someone to do it. You can persuade, intimidate, deceive, trick, charm... but you can't legally use force.

When you purchase a car, your name is on the title. The lender is listed as the lien holder, but the car is in your name and is your property.

I've only had one encounter with a repo man, and that was over a mixup with the lender (we were fully paid up, but one department wasn't talking to the other department).

We had a knock at our door early (gray daylight) on a Saturday morning, and a man was there with a tow truck saying he had an order to take our travel trailer. He showed me the paperwork, and I told him it was in error, because I was completely up to date on payments (and had been for at least a couple of weeks). We stood around yakking in the driveway while I tried to get the finance company on the phone (they're in California, and weren't open yet). Our daughter went out to the trailer and came back with an armload of stuff, and my wife asked her what she was doing. She said she was getting our stuff out; my wife told her she didn't have to do that, because they weren't taking the trailer anywhere. A minute or so later I gave up on getting anyone to answer the phone in California, and the driver said, "Well, that's okay, you've already said we can't take it, so we can't touch it anyway."

And from what I understand, that is a pretty general rule: if they find it on the street and can hook up to it, it's finders keepers. But if you tell them no, they can't use any kind of force to take it unless there's an actual court order, not just repo paperwork from the lender.

Oh, and we did get it all straightened out with the lender, but I did have to argue with them over who had to pay the tow company for the wasted trip. They eventually dropped it.