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Brazos

Gemini or someone said that John David Wells may do a show (KLIF 570 AM) or talk about this issue. Did anything happen or did anyone talk to JDW? His show is sponsored by DFW Gun Range and he seems to support CHL and constitutional issues. Here is a local one, hot topic and I bet he would jump on it.

Anything come of this?

I know Mark Davis was uninformed and not concerned but just haven't seen an update on JDW.

Brazos

gemini wrote:
boomerang wrote:
Hos wrote:I wonder why there were no issues the first 1/2 of the fair and now they changed the rules on us? Guns will always be a "hot button" topic so even if there was 1 incident with someone leaving their gun on a ride it's 1 time too many
What if it was a cop? Are the gate clerks recording their info? How about celebrity or political bodyguards?
or how about the exhibitors or vendors.....are they all being wanded, their information being recorded everyday....this is taken from the 2009 State Fair of Texas "Guidelines for Exhibitors" (P.6 item 26.)

26. Exhibitors are strictly prohibited from carrying a weapon or firearm within Fair Park or within the
exhibit space, unless such person is licensed by the State of Texas to carry a concealed handgun
and complies with such laws. Unlicensed persons carrying a firearm onto Fair Park premises will
be subject to a Class A misdemeanor, punishable by up to 1 year in jail and a $4,000 fine.

Unbelievable. How would they be able to wand every exhibitor in and out each day anyway. I'd bet my STI it's not happening. No way.

Different set of rules for the exhibitors. Just one more inconsistency.

Maybe the gun Ledbetter supposedly found was an exhibitor's. This whole thing has me sideways.

I'm not waiting on TSRA or anyone else to do what I need to do as an individual.

Brazos

Apparently several large private entities who lease government property are watching this situation closely –

NTTA - The North Texas Toll Authority board met last Friday and, based on the actions taken by the State Fair, is considering a policy which would refuse use of all toll roads by CHL holders. NTTA is a private entity who leases and manages certain government roadways.

CHL holders would be required to stop at a manned toll booth prior to entry, present CHL and DL for recording and then be allowed to use the roadway. The CHL holder may refuse, but failure to comply would constitute criminal trespass.
Information would be destroyed at the end of each day.

Grapevine Wine Fest – This non-profit, private entity, leases streets and parks each year from the City of Grapevine for a weekend festival. They believe the State Fair, with approval of DPS’s attorneys, has set a precedent by requiring personal information of all CHL holders as a condition of entry. Their volunteers will be logging this information at next year’s event.

Scottish Games – This private entity is leasing Flag Pole Hill Park for next year’s games. Due to the ruling by DPS regarding Fair Park, all CHL holders discovered by their wanders will be required to present their CHL and DL. All personal information will be logged and registered by the gate personnel.

Are these real? – NO
Outrageous? Ridiculous? Preposterous? Do you think so?
Could they happen? – YES, JUST LIKE WHAT IS HAPPENING AT THE STATE FAIR!

We CANNOT let our Texas State legislated rights fade away.

Brazos

employee3 wrote:This is my first post after lurking for a while...

I'm going to the fair today. carrying. legally.

Tyranny must stop somewhere. My hope is that they follow the standard LEO check and be done, otherwise I'll bail. But I will make my concerns heard for sure, should they ask to write down ANY information.

I'll report back hopefully later than sooner.

Agree 100%. We are attending the fair tonight and I will ONLY show my CHL to a LEO. If the fair requires ANYTHING other than that, my family and I will NEVER attend the fair again. And I mean it. I am seventh generation Texan, attended the fair every year of my life, attended fair days as a kid but it may be my last trip. May buy a nice, new pistol with the money saved!

If they refuse entrance, I will never attend again and then become the worst boil imaginable on the State Fair's backside.

Thank you Gemini for posting your experience. This is just the type of situation we CANNOT let happen or ignore.

Brazos · Re: A disappointing State Fair episode 10-1-09 Gemini- your prediction?

Gemini- your prediction?

Brazos

At some point, hopefully soon, this situation will be resolved. But how, and what are some of the possible outcomes? Here are some possibilities. Which choice do you think the State Fair will pick?

1) Purchase numerous 30.06 signs and post all entrances of our Texas State Fair. Big Tex says “Howdy” but not to CHL holders.

2) Allow a CHL holder to carry after presenting CHL to the gate security and then providing personal information in order to enter. The specific information required will be determined by our Texas State Fair and collected by their skilled gate security force.

3) Follow their current written policies found on their website and allow the CHL holder to carry once the CHL has been shown to their gate security personnel.

4) Change their current policy and allow a CHL holder to carry once the CHL holder has presented their card to a LEO or authorized magistrate.

5) Not post 30.06 signs but deny entry to all CHL holders. As a courtesy, our Texas State Fair will offer a secure lock box at each gate for you to store your weapon as you enjoy the fair.

6) In the future, ANYONE who tries to enter our Texas State Fair with a gun will be thrown to the ground, handcuffed and detained by the authorized gate security.

Forget legal/illegal, what outcome do YOU predict?

Brazos

Agree, but I thought the law CURRENTLY only requires us to present our card to a LEO or magistrate. I won't show it to anyone else.
Thank you Gemini for pushing hard. I also respect you for maintaining confidentiality right now while the lawyers talk. We should still keep the pressure on and make calls, emails, etc.
Headed to the Fair tomorrow night.

Brazos

Headed to the State Fair Thursday night. I'll let you know what happens. None of us will enter if we are required to give personal information.

Brazos

On a plane and will miss the Mark Davis show. Keep at it and good luck.

Brazos

srothstein wrote:First, I want to say I support all of your efforts in edning this. I do not believe the State Fair Association has the right to collect this information against your will.

But, I do want to point out that they may be within their legal authority. They cannot deny you entrance to the fair because you are carrying, but they may (and I emphasize may, indicating possibility not certainty) be able to deny you entrance for failure to provide them with your name and address and CHL info. There is nothing in the law that I can find that forbids this collection of data or a 30.05 warning for criminal trespass for failure to cooperate.

The law on confidentiality only applies to DPS releasing the information. It does not pertain to the private organizations or you releasing the information. This is how it should be, with restrictions on what the government can do but not on individuals or businesses. Since State Fair of Texas is a private non-profit corporation that receives no government funding (according to their web site), the rules on the government should not apply to it.

So, how can they justify the 30.05 warning? Well, entry into a private event is always by some type of contract. In this case, part of the contract is that you provide them with certain information IF you are carrying a weapon by using a CHL (I wonder if they are copying down off duty cops info too). This may be the same under the law as requiring you to pay a fee for an entry ticket.

I disagree with them, but I can see where they could make a legal argument that would survive an initial court exam. This means we could be in for a fight that will not be resolved this year. I think that we need to get TSRA to start working on a permanent solution by drafting a bill that does make this information totally confidential.

This is going to sound like a smart aleck but not intended.

It is true the State Fair is not refusing entrance to the park but is placing conditions on one’s ability to enter. That is a problem and should make anyone who took high school civics cringe. The law is VERY clear where you can and cannot carry and specifically addresses amusement parks. The law imparts certain RIGHTS(and responsibilities) to the CHL holder. It does not specifically list every type of situation that may occur. The law assigns a RIGHT and anything that counters that specific RIGHT is not allowed.

If asked for personal information as a condition to enter the State Fair, at what point does one say "that is too much"? We may all have different opinions but the law does not allow for additional conditions and request for personal information.

What if they wanted your SSN? Still no problem?
What if they required your passport? Still no problem?
Financial records?
Medical release?
What if they told you to duck walk and squawk like a chicken?

Government Property/Private Agency Issue?

Would it be an issue if the North Texas Toll Authority demanded and gathered personal information as a condition to using our local toll roads while carrying? Forget the law and the right to carry in your vehicle. This is a private agency and they are not refusing your use of their road but are only placing conditions. Any issue?

How about the publically sponsored/privately managed festivals throughout Texas? Many held right on the county square. What conditions are acceptable?

I can think of several other examples but my point is - We should diligently oppose ALL attempts to erode our right to carry. Every one of them.

Brazos

This is my first post to this site and I am so upset that I could not let it pass.
The State Fair of Texas does not decide if a CHL is allowed to carry on the fairgrounds. That decision was made for them by our founding fathers and the Texas State Legislature. The fairgrounds are government property and owned by the citizens. Yes, WE own it and just because the State Fair is renting the property does not allow them to supersede our state’ laws. Period.
The State Fair of Texas cannot, legally, post a 30.06 or verbally deny a CHL the right to carry on the fairgrounds. I’m not sure why a CHL would not understand the difference. In addition, the State Fair cannot, legally, add conditions to the carry law in order for a CHL to enter. Logging personal information, SSN, car registration, etc. or WHATEVER else they THINK they can require is simply not legal and is a violation of the CHL law pertaining to our right to carry on government property. The law is VERY clear.
This just a chipping away at our rights to carry and I am calling the State Fair of Texas right now to verify their policy, and if correct, am calling the NRA Institute for Legislative Action. I encourage you to do the same.
“The greatest menace to Freedom is an inert people.”
State Fair of Texas - 214-565-9931 press O for assistance
NRA Institute for Legislative Action – 800.392.8683

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