TexasCHLforum.com

Hoi Polloi wrote:

Embalmo wrote:I'm using the phrase "Verbally show" to mean verbally indicating one's carry status as armed; to tell someone that there is a gun in your pocket. To raise ones shirt to reveal the gun shaped bulge in one's bicycle shorts would be to physically show.

I agree that it doesn't say anything in the book about telling someone in friendly conversation that you're armed (where others may hear you), but I do think that it's a little gray when you consider that bicycle pants and loose lips yield the same results; that you gotta' gun in your pants. And you've also, naturally, got to be careful in places where LEOs and shopkeepers may not get the concept of non-compliant signs.

Embalmo

While imprudent, it is not illegal. Is that what you mean by calling it a gray area? That you might be legally OK, but that it might not be worth the potential hassle, fallout, or fright to do so?

bdickens wrote:

Embalmo wrote:

bdickens wrote:

Embalmo wrote:Seriously though, I'm not confused over what the little white book sez, but I still think that revealing one's carry status, regardless of the medium, is iffy and will likely get you arrested and possibly prosecuted if a moron calls the poleese (at least here in Austin).

Embalmo

Arrested and possibly prosecuted for what?

Arrested because the LEO or manager of the establishment is convinced that you can't carry in a grocery store that sells beer, or just because (insert whatever ignorance of CHL law here) and prosecuted by a DA that believes that guns cause crime. Do you think antis in authority really care about...Whats that funny word? Oh yea, the LAW. Oh and if there's a silly gun buster sign on the door, it's GAME ON for the prosecution and arresting officer.


Embalmo

Ever heard of false arrest? Official oppression?

Sec. 39.03. OFFICIAL OPPRESSION. (a) A public servant acting under color of his office or employment commits an offense if he:

(1) intentionally subjects another to mistreatment or to arrest, detention, search, seizure, dispossession, assessment, or lien that he knows is unlawful;

(2) intentionally denies or impedes another in the exercise or enjoyment of any right, privilege, power, or immunity, knowing his conduct is unlawful; or

(3) intentionally subjects another to sexual harassment.

(b) For purposes of this section, a public servant acts under color of his office or employment if he acts or purports to act in an official capacity or takes advantage of such actual or purported capacity.

(c) In this section, "sexual harassment" means unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, or other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature, submission to which is made a term or condition of a person's exercise or enjoyment of any right, privilege, power, or immunity, either explicitly or implicitly.

(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

Embalmo wrote: ...Oh and if there's a silly gun buster sign on the door, it's GAME ON for the prosecution and arresting officer.

And why is this so hard to understand:

Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:

(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and

(2) received notice that:

(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or

(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.

(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.

(c) In this section:

(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).

(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).

(3) "Written communication" means:

(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or

(B) a sign posted on the property that:

(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;

(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and

(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

And why is this so hard to understand:

Ever heard of false arrest? Official oppression?

alpmc wrote:For this scenario, let's say I'm for absolute gun control and I don't think citizens should be armed! (I'm not even going to discuss the drinking!)

I'm sitting in Chili's and I hear this guy verbally disclose that he is armed. I call the Police and they arrive on scene. They ask me who has a gun and I point the guy out. Sure enough, they discover he has a gun.

I'm sitting in Chili's and I see this guy has a gun because he shows it to his friend. I call the Police and they arrive on scene. They ask me who has a gun and I point the guy out. Sure enough, they discover he has a gun.

I'm sitting in Chili's and I see this guy showing his CH License to his friend (or to a possible adversary in a threatening manner), I assume he may be armed. I call the Police and they arrive on scene. They ask me who has a gun and I point the guy out. Sure enough, they discover he has a gun.

If I'm just a bystander and I can point you out to Law Enforcement as being in possession of a firearm, then you have effectively "Failed to conceal"!

The facts concerning each individual situation listed above now becomes an issue of interpretation of the Law by Police and maybe later by Lawyers!

Concealed means Concealed! Strap it on.........cover it up.............and SHUT UP!!!!!

bdickens wrote:

Embalmo wrote:Seriously though, I'm not confused over what the little white book sez, but I still think that revealing one's carry status, regardless of the medium, is iffy and will likely get you arrested and possibly prosecuted if a moron calls the poleese (at least here in Austin).

Embalmo

Arrested and possibly prosecuted for what?

sjfcontrol wrote:

Embalmo wrote:I'm using the phrase "Verbally show" to mean verbally indicating one's carry status as armed; to tell someone that there is a gun in your pocket. To raise ones shirt to reveal the gun shaped bulge in one's bicycle shorts would be to physically show.

I agree that it doesn't say anything in the book about telling someone in friendly conversation that you're armed (where others may hear you), but I do think that it's a little gray when you consider that bicycle pants and loose lips yield the same results; that you gotta' gun in your pants. And you've also, naturally, got to be careful in places where LEOs and shopkeepers may not get the concept of non-compliant signs.

Embalmo

Embalmo -- I think you are confusing yourself with your non-standard use of the English language. You simply CANNOT verbally (or orally) "show" something.

And as somebody else pointed out, that isn't what the law talks about anyway. The law says:

"Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

You "observe" stuff with your eyes, not your ears. The law does not say "...presence of which is not detectible by a reasonable person". That would include detection by any means.

dicion wrote:

Embalmo wrote:...some idiot called and told them that I told another that I had a gun in my pocket.

Must.. resist... obvious... joke...

Hoi Polloi wrote:Here's what the statutes say concerning "concealed means concealed."

"Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

An ordinary person (not those specifically trained in firearms) using ordinary observation (not scrutiny) should not be able to discern that that's a gun you've got there. Ordinary printing is not illegal. Wearing a skin-tight leotard and tucking a very large handgun into the belly area might be, though, if the ordinary person walking by you would realize you have a gun there. Talking about it is not illegal. Pulling up your shirt to illustrate your point would be, though.

sjfcontrol wrote:

Embalmo wrote:
So it is legal to expose that you're carrying a gun?

He didn't "expose" it, he declared it. To expose something means to show it.

dicion wrote:

Embalmo wrote: So this guy did break the law?

-By 'Intentionally Exposing' his gun?
No. He did not actually 'expose' any handgun, so it would not be illegal under that section.
I can run into a bar and say "I've got my Gun! Do you?" even if I was completely unarmed.
How can you expose something you don't even have?

-By Potentially breaching the peace by shouting he had a gun?
Maybe, I don't know what the laws are on breaching the peace. If someone felt threatened, possibly. Perhaps one of the LEO's here can expound further here.

-By Carrying Intoxicated?
Possibly, depending on if he was intoxicated or not, and if he was actually carrying or not.
No one actually saw a gun, so we don't know if he was really carrying.

Purplehood wrote:

Embalmo wrote:

Teamless wrote:I have never read any law saying you can or cannot "out yourself"
if it were illegal, then even you outing yourself with other "gun friendly" people would also be illegal

Isn't that the same as revealing that you have a driver license instead of revealing that you have a car. So it's perfectly legal to walk around telling people that you have a gun in your pocket? I thought it wasn't legal to even answer the question, "Do you have a gun in your pocket?" I'm gonna' need to blow the dust off the little white book tomorrow. Ahh-Doesn't matter. I won't real my carry status anyway.

Embalmo

It is not legal to reveal the weapon unless you have reason to use it. What you say is not what you do.

Teamless wrote:I have never read any law saying you can or cannot "out yourself"
if it were illegal, then even you outing yourself with other "gun friendly" people would also be illegal