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VectorWega wrote: ↑Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:31 pm

C-dub wrote: ↑Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:01 pm A bad dog is a bad dog. Some pits are bad. Many are good. Many dogs of any breed are bad. With the amount of poor breeding that goes into many pits or any breed I am amazed there are not more problems.

Poor breeding? American Pit Bull Terriers were originally bred to compete in blood sports: bull baiting, bear baiting, and dog fighting. People wanted a dog that was as powerful as a bulldog but with the tenacity and killer instinct of a terrier.

Yeah, poor breeding. Irresponsible breeding. And irresponsible owners.

I've been out of it for a little while now, but I trained dogs for a few different sports that included various forms of tracking, scent discrimination, obedience, and protection. I did that for many years at all levels including international competitions. I've done helper/decoy work for many different breeds at the local, regional, and national level. This includes, but is not limited to Pits (aka American Staffordshire Terrier), Rotties, Dobies, GSD, a couple Mastiff variations, Belgian Malinois, Bouvier de Flandres, Dogue de Bordeaux, Rhodesian Ridgebacks, and Border Collies. I've seen good and bad dogs. I've seen some bad dogs that were too weak to compete at each of those levels, but their owners tried anyway and probably ruined an otherwise good dog. I've seen some dogs that should have never been encouraged to bite a human in the first place. Stupid humans made a bad or questionable dog a very dangerous dog.

And the parents of most of those dogs I saw and trained had passed temperament testing. Some easily and some barely. Some probably didn't, but judges let them slide hoping the next judge would weed their prodigy out if they were unsuitable. All of those dogs, hundreds to thousands, are just a spec compared to what is out there being bred in someones backyard. We saw it in the 50's, 60's, and early 70's with GSDs due to the popularity of movies like Rin Tin Tin. It just took longer for us to see the repercussions then because movies weren't as wide spread as just a few decades later. Then in the 70's and 80's after "The Doberman Gang" movies. Then in the 90's a little while after "The Omen." I'm not aware of a movie that did this for the Pits. There was the live action "101 Dalmations." More recently there have been a couple movies with Malinois' and especially since their work with the Navy SEALS. Malinois breeders are terrified what might happen to their breed. Every time we saw the public awareness surge for a breed the breeding got out of control and thousands to tens of thousands of poor breeding took place to make money structure suffered some and temperament SUFFERED big time in each of those breeds.

I will step down off of my soap box now. I am not an expert in this field. There are a lot of people I know that make me look like a preschooler on this topic. Think of me a little like State Farm Insurance in this area. I know a thing or two about dogs because I've seen and done a thing or two with dogs.

A bad dog is a bad dog. Some pits are bad. Many are good. Many dogs of any breed are bad. With the amount of poor breeding that goes into many pits or any breed I am amazed there are not more problems.

Any dog CAN be perfectly fine with humans and be dog aggressive and for various reasons. If an animal control person, judge, or whomever is making this evaluation and decision regarding any dog doesn't know or realize or care about this then that's a big problem. Many breeds are known to be very family oriented and protective of their family, while being extremely wary of outsiders.

To evaluate this dog I would set up various tests that put those different circumstances in play and see how it reacts. I still cannot believe they let that dog return to its own home.

Chas,

I feel your pain man and I understand where your focus is at for getting your girl taken care of. That is the main goal for now.

Hoodasnack is mostly correct and I don't know what all his experience is. Mine is in training dogs for Schutzhund, Mondioring, and Ringsport at the local, state, national and even international levels. Tracking, obedience, protection, and scent discrimination. I've also done a lot of work with the AKC and their temperament test and maybe Hoodsnack has too. That score is based on those that were willing to attempt that testing. There are so many more poorly bred dogs that would never ever be temperament tested because there is no way they would pass out there it is unbelievable to those outside the dog world. Not nearly as much ignorance as liberals have for firearms since Hoodasnack referred to the Pit as the AR of dogs, but it would really shock some folks.

TAM had a great idea of recording all conversations with the idiot of an animal control person. I would also suggest doing as much communication with email as you can to also have her words in writing. CYA for sure and maybe bury hers in her own ignorant/bias words. One thing I'm curious about is that you mentioned this dog is back at your neighbors house in a fenced yard and barking at other dogs passing by. How in the world is that idiot animal control officer evaluating this dog if it is not at animal control under quarantine? That is not how this is supposed to work. She's acting like more of an advocate for the attacker rather than the victim or the safety of the rest of the community.

Also, IIRC, it sounds like the Pit owner may not be an actual resident, but visitor and the dog may be gone before long. Could that be a reason why animal control doesn't want to proceed with anything against a non-resident and just hoping the problem will go away on its own?

EDIT to add: I was so focused on what I've done in the last 20 years with dogs that I'd forgotten some stuff before that almost 30 years ago. I was heavily involved in rescue with the DFW Rottweiler Club and fostered and evaluated nearly all of their rescues brought in that were reported to be aggressive. That amounted to roughly 80-100 dogs over a 5 year period that came into my house. I only had to have two of them euthanized. Most of the ones thought to be aggressive were either abused by a man and distrusted any man. It took time and the help of some of my schutzhund club members, but we rehabilitated all of those. Many others were just typical Rottie behavior that the previous owners didn't understand and weren't prepared for or capable of handling.

I'm certainly not the be-all-end-all of dog trainers or behavioral specialists, but I have seen and done a lot. Heck, my own brother and sister don't listen to me when they ask about issues with their dogs. I tell them how to fix this or correct that and they ignore my advice and their dog's behavior continues. Recently, over at my sister's, I fixed an issue with their 8 month old pup in about 15 minutes and they were amazed. I explained what I did and they said they'd never read that in any book about this breed. I explained that it wasn't going to be in a book and where I got that knowledge from. Even after that, they still don't listen on many things and they've got a really smart dog that is training them well!

Lena, one of our other members here, has also done A LOT with dogs, just in a slightly different direction than my experiences.

chasfm11 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:14 pm

C-dub wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:01 pm Chas, I hope your girl is going to be okay. She may end up quite a bit afraid to outside for walks from now on, so hopefully you can find something else to do when she recovers.

The person that told you a dog will fight through the pain may have thought your were talking about OC spray and not Open Carrying a .45ACP. Although, we know they will fight through that until and unless something vital is hit that stops them.

Since you know who the owner of the Pit is I hope LE can handle this and they will pay for all your girl's medical and the Pit is quarantined and evaluated whether or not it should be put down.

You are right about OC meaning pepper spray when I was talking to her. I deliberately did not mention that I normally carry a gun in that conversation so the OC was not open carry. A .45ACP round through the back of the dogs head would probably have stopped everything.

Animal Services is handling this. She said that she will evaluate the dog for excessive aggressiveness but indicated that she was unlikely to find that. The more she talked, the less I felt any security that the matter wasn't simply going to be brushed aside. We'll see. Right now, I'm just trying to get through the night with my dog. I'm watching for more symptoms. A trip to the emergency vet in the middle of the night could still be in my future.

Does or did your vet do any x-rays or other lab work?

Chas, I hope your girl is going to be okay. She may end up quite a bit afraid to outside for walks from now on, so hopefully you can find something else to do when she recovers.

The person that told you a dog will fight through the pain may have thought your were talking about OC spray and not Open Carrying a .45ACP. Although, we know they will fight through that until and unless something vital is hit that stops them.

Since you know who the owner of the Pit is I hope LE can handle this and they will pay for all your girl's medical and the Pit is quarantined and evaluated whether or not it should be put down.