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Asta, just want you to know I'm not calling your out or trying to second-guess everything you wrote. I just have a few mild disagreements with some of it, and thought I'd point out my own opinion. Most of this is just conjecture anyway as no one here is a ballistics expert. - AR

Asta85 wrote:The 9mm is not a bad round, but it has less stopping power, thus requiring either more prescision, or more hits. The .40 is known as the "compromise" round. Why? It has more stopping power than the 9mm, but just isn't quite the .45. The .45 is a big bad bullet, and it will stop.

This is a bit simplistic. Both 9mm and .40 are moving faster than typical .45 loads. And all three - with proper load (i.e. 9mm +P) - will from a duty-gun length barrel exceed the magical 400 ft-lbs of energy number that - at least on paper - makes for good pistol stopping power. Beyond that and some ballistic gelatin tests, the rest is all guess work and conjecture. Bullets do weird things. People have dropped dead from a .22LR, while others have walked around with multiple .45-cal bullets in them. I've even heard a story from a SWAT guy of a bad guy getting up after a pair of 5.56mm Hornady TAP bullets to the chest. Point is, there is no magic bullet or "manstopper" and one of these three is not necessarily "better" than the others. Its all just varying degrees of "who knows?" and with the right gun and load, all are proven good self defense rounds.

Asta85 wrote:Once you decide essentialy how much you want to shoot at a badguy, you are almost ready to go to the store.

I agree with this - picking a caliber is a good first step that will help narrow choices. But this is just as much about the feel of the gun and how it shoots than the caliber itself - example, a .45-cal Glock's grip is too large for many people to hold - thus not a good choice at all. But 9mm/.40/.357 Glocks do fit more hands. Of those three, some may find .40/.357 too snappy in the same frame as a 9mm. So, you're on the right track, but just picking say ".45 ACP" and then trying to find the right gun in that caliber may not leave many good choices. The caliber and gun go hand-in-hand in determining the "fit" of the gun to the shooter for multiple varied reasons.

Asta85 wrote:I believe you stated that you have an injured wrist, but I wouldn't let that get in the way of your decision just yet. Why? If your wrist is going to recover, you should be readily able to handle any recoil given by the .40s&w. People will tell you all day long that the .40 has more recoil/kick/push than the 9mm... Ya think?! A few factors here, GENERALY (from my shopping experience) most of the brands put their .40's, and 9mm's on the same frame and such making it essentially the same pistol in dimensions and weight. Bigger bullet + More powder + Same size as a 9mm = tranfers more energy to you, aka kick. People will also say "the .40 has more kick than the .45!" Well, .45's are GENERALY on a larger frame, and have a greater weight. Energy to move the bullet, slide, and the weight of the pistol is eaten up before it gets to you resulting in a not as harsh kick. Also I noticed that recoil is effected by how steady a person is on their feet standing anyway. If you are easily knocked back, or have less muscule control the 9mm may be right for you. I shot about 20rds from a SIG 9mm last August on my honeymoon, and I no trouble controlling it at all.

Again, you're on the right track, but I can tell you from personal experience that in a similar-sized gun the .45 ACP is "easier" to shoot and kicks a bit less than a .40 S&W. Both recoil more than 9mm, but it's a different feel. .40-cal "jumps" in your hand, popping your wrist back sharply whereas .45 is a hard push straight back (this is why a lot of shooters like a ported barrel with a .40 or .357). The difference is the pressure of the loads (.40 standard load is higher pressure than .45 standard load). To say anyone can shoot a .40 is too general. Some people don't shoot it as well and don't like it. A good shooter with strong wrists and good technique can effectively shoot anything well - but everyone has a caliber/pistol that just fits them best.

What makes the .40 so advantageous as a police or self defense caliber is the unique combination of capacity (similar to 9mm) and energy delivery (almost to level of .45). The trade off is that it is a more jumpy round that can be a bit more difficult to control, especially for someone with wrist or hand injury issues.

Asta85 wrote:My brother chose the 9mm saying "well if you put the bullet where it counts, size doesn't matter." Maybe so, but in the event that you need to use your weapon you will probably not have time to perfectly aim exactly "where it counts", and I would rather have a round that will provide more knock-back, and/or knock-down power.

This is a misnomer. A handgun bullet can't be big enough to overcome an errant shot. Regardless of caliber, putting the bullets "where it counts" is the most important task of a self-defense shooter, not only from a stopping power perspective but also from the perspective of avoiding hitting innocents or others' property with stray bullets. A single 9mm center mass will have much more stopping power than a .40 or .45 grazing an arm. I'd venture to say a 9mm dead center in the chest even has a better chance of stopping an attacker than a .40 or .45 in the stomach. And certainly a 9mm to the leg is more dangerous than a .45 whizzing past your head. Point is, choose the caliber/gun you can shoot best and then PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE. IMHO, an IPSC Grand Master with a 9mm is much more dangerous to a bad guy than some guy with a new .45 he's never shot.

cougartex wrote:

Teamless wrote: just use the right holster, belt and clothing...

Exactly ... depending on clothing, I can conceal a full-size .45-cal Smith & Wesson M&P with a 4.5-inch barrel and a huge beaver tail built into the rear of the grip. A quality IWB holster (Crossbreed, Comp Tac etc) keeps even this large gun close to the body and concealed under a T-shirt. Of course, if you don't like IWB then you'll need to be a bit more flexible as far as clothing when carrying OWB.

Don't get me wrong, I still own and carry a number of smaller guns - but this is simply convenience for those times when concealing the larger gun isn't as easy (like when having to "dress nice").

My personal feeling is that every CHLee should have at least two guns - the "big gun" that you shoot really well and prefer to carry whenever possible, and the "small gun" that you can easily conceal, even slip into a pocket when you need it. Many even carry both guns at the same time - one as primary and one as BUG (back up gun).

spike, welcome

you've already received a number of good responses. I'm with the camp that believes the difference between 9mm, .40, and .45 as defensive calibers are minor enough to not warrant a huge amount of concern. Most important is picking a gun that fits you well and that you shoot well.

Remember too that smaller guns (like a Glock 26) are typically more difficult to shoot well (as an example, I can't shoot my Glock 27 subcompact as well past 15 yards as I can my Glock 17 full size). So there definitely is a trade off.

Also if you're traveling state-to-state a lot, be sure to consider each state's individual laws. There are the obvious no-carry laws, when you'll have to lock up your gun in the trunk, but in some of those states (Kalifornia being a perfectly rotten example) it is illegal to even possess a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds (unless, in case of Kalifornia, it was grandfathered into the state prior to 2000). Many pistols perfectly legal in Texas and elsewhere could get you into some trouble in some states (New York, Massachussetts?) based solely on standard capacity magazines holding more than 10 rounds. For this reason, the Glock 26 with a standard 10-round magazine would be a good choice. However, modifying the magazine with a pinky extension that then allows for 11 or 12 rounds in the magazine would be illegal. .... confused yet? Of course, reduced capacity magazines are available for most modern guns to comply with stupid state laws, but it is just one more hassle to consider.

As for the cost of ammo, it varies greatly between stores and even depending on the time you buy it (try to buy A LOT when a Republican is in the White House so you won't need to buy so much when a Democrat is there ). Some general cost break downs based on locally available ammo in my area (north Austin - Wal Mart, GT Distributors having the lowest prices on basic practice ammo). I typically try to keep about 500 rounds on hand of each caliber I need (others keep much less or way more stockpiled).

~ $11 per 50 rounds of 9mm 115-grain FMJ practice ammo = $0.22 per round x 500 = $110
~ $14 per 50 rounds of .40 S&W 180-grain FMJ practice ammo = $0.28 per round x 500 = $160
~ $20 per 50 rounds of .45 ACP 230-grain FMJ practice ammo = $0.40 per round x 500 = $200

As for self-defense effectiveness, all three calibers are widely used by police agencies and military forces world wide. Generally speaking, bigger is better in terms of stopping power. But the trade off is obviously capacity and how easy is the caliber to shoot. A .40-caliber handgun has always been considered a good "trade off" between 9mm and .45 since its introduction, however recoil impulse is sharper than either 9mm or .45 because .40-caliber uses a relatively "high pressure" standard load.

Another factor to consider is that to get max effectiveness out of 9mm in a self defense situation, using +P increased pressure ammo is strongly recommended. But then shooting that more expensive load for practice gets much more expensive than standard-pressure 9mm practice ammo. Also inexpensive 9mm practice ammo is usually 115 grain and relatively soft shooting, compared to heavier 124-147-grain +P rounds that can kick much more sharply. With .40 caliber and .45 caliber, typically you can more easily and inexpensively (relatively speaking of course) find practice ammo at least of the same bullet weight as your carry ammo and often loaded to similar pressures so the recoil impulse you feel shooting practice ammo should be more similar to what you'll feel shooting your defensive ammo.

I don't believe this last factor should be a huge consideration - I often practice with cheap 115-grain 9mm and carry 124-grain +P rounds and don't notice a major difference in point of impact between the two rounds at defensive distances - but it is something to consider depending on your skill level etc.