Search found 4 matches

by 74novaman
Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:57 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Retail Theft question
Replies: 70
Views: 9985

Re: Retail Theft question

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote:"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
What if the presumption is wrong and the woman isn't a loss prevention officer and the man was the victim of an assault? What if she was a loss prevention officer, but she was using excessive force? What if you hurt the male assault victim because your assumption was wrong? What if the male assault victim was willing to defend himself with hands alone, until you joined the assault and you got shot?

In every one of my CHL classes, I point out that when we decide to defend an unknown 3rd person, we are risking that our presumptions are incorrect. Unless you know the people involved AND you saw the events unfold from the beginning, you cannot be sure you know the facts. Well meaning intervention into events can result in innocent people getting hurt or killed, a guilty person escaping, or the rescuer getting injured or killed.

Try to put yourself in the position of an innocent person incorrectly believed to be an attacker. They are already being assaulted and you join with his attacker. If I'm the victim, . . . well it won't go well for either of my attackers, including the would-be rescuer.

There certainly are incidents involving innocent 3rd persons that are clearly warrant a rescuer to get involved, including the use of deadly force. However, not all incidents are so clear and the one described was not.

Chas.
:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

Getting involved with other people conflicts without knowing all the ins and outs seems like a bad decision to me.

I guess when you find out later the person you're assisting was in the wrong, at least you can tell the judge that you didn't want to let evil prevail. :tiphat:
by 74novaman
Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:40 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Retail Theft question
Replies: 70
Views: 9985

Re: Retail Theft question

ralewis wrote:
What I got out of this thread though (I hope) was a bit more pre-planning for a scenario I hadn't considered before. Maybe rather than reacting, I'd take a step back and be a good witness. If the situation turned into an assault with a deadly weapon, perhaps then that would be the time to get involved. Tough to know for sure though until a situation unfolds in front of me.
That sounds like a pretty good plan. :cool:
by 74novaman
Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:23 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Retail Theft question
Replies: 70
Views: 9985

Re: Retail Theft question

Steve, thanks for the relevant citation of Texas law.

I guess my own limited time in retail got in my way here. We were always told if we observed someone shoplifting, to report it to the manager....approach the person and ask "Is there anything I can help you with?" as a subtle 'I'm watching you' message...give them every opportunity to pay...and let the manager/cops deal with it if they walked out.

I just can't imagine that any place still tries to apprehend shoplifters over $25 bucks of goods when the possibility of a multi million dollar lawsuit can arise if it isn't handled just right....

And as CHL holders we should take into account that jumping into the situation AS DESCRIBED could lead to some serious legal trouble.

How many here who said they'd jump in and help out know exactly what the law says you can and can't do to "legally detain" someone?

I sure as heck dont, and its not worth the potential loss of my money, freedom, or right to carry to jump in a strangers dispute over a pair of socks.



It's been said before that we're not cops, we're not batman...we just have a CHL. Unless someone is actually physically harming someone else.....I'm not jumping into the fray.
by 74novaman
Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:01 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Retail Theft question
Replies: 70
Views: 9985

Re: Retail Theft question

So paid security people and random bystanders can forcibly detain people they think are shoplifting now?

Im not a litigious type, but if a rent a cop and a bystander used force to keep me somewhere, I'd be pressing charges for unlawful detainment and assault.

Another thing to consider before you jump into a situation like that.

Edit: to clarify...I know security guards can stop someone and ask to inspect their bags,ect. But as to wrestling around pinning someone down as stated in the OP... Isn't that overstepping their authority?

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