This will be an interesting discussion, from two people whom I respect, both of whom have well thought-out and supportable opinions.The Mad Moderate wrote:By taking your tax refund or garnishing your wages. Having worked for the IRS it is relatively rare to end up in jail for not paying taxes, it happens but not as often as one thinks. Also I believe there are provisions in the bill that forbid it. But what does it matter what I say as you see me and 54% of americans an your enemy. I guess I ought to go crawl in a hole and die now since I am so un-American. Although something about he who is without sin casting the first stone or not throwing stones if you live in a glass house comes to mind. I call you the enemy of liberty for supporting the president who passed the Patriot Act, which striped far more liberty from us than Obama could ever dream of.The Annoyed Man wrote:That part in red is bull. Collections of the punishment tax will be via the IRS. What if you refuse to pay it? If there is no jail, then they cannot enforce the fine.......same as for any other tax.The Mad Moderate wrote:1. Yes it is a Tax I cannot dispute that.steveincowtown wrote:This may be a useless exercise, and please don't see this as an attack, but could you enumerate and explain what right wing media lies that the other posters have bought in to? You could even just do the top three.The Mad Moderate wrote:And here I though the people on the site were smart. I cannot believe so many "smart" people are still buying into the lies of the right wing media machine.
Such as:
#1> Do you believe this is NOT a tax?
You can choose the rest...
PS...In the future when you choose to call a group stupid, I would double check grammar and spelling before hitting the old submit button.
2. There is no rationing of care http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statemen ... -can-rati/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
3.It is NOT a government takeover of healthcare http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... nment-tak/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
4. You will not go to jail for not buying health insurance http://www.politifact.com/virginia/stat ... lth-care-/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
5. There are and never will be "Death panels" http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... ath-panel/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That said, the blasphemy to the Constitution (at this point) does NOT lie in the allegations (Tax vs. fine, death panels, rationing of care, nor enforcement by the IRS) but in the liberty aspect. Freedom of choice, as well as states rights, are the core issues at hand here. By the time cases go to the Supreme Court, they are (usually) no longer a matter of the content of a particular bill, but the application.
The matters we all get up in arms about (death panels, rationing, etc.) are matters of content...Supreme Court doesn't hear normative matters (e.g. "Should thus and so happen because it's the right/wrong thing") but matters of law (e.g. "does it fit within the framework of the Constitution and previous case law?")
We can argue "Should we have Obamacare" all day long, and reasonable people can disagree. The implications from these rulings are about "How does our legal system work?"
