TexasCHLforum.com

sugar land dave wrote:Nice move not addressing the aspect of standing in front of a judge. I'll stand by my opinion, and you may have yours. I will state that I read a purported company statement expressing their desire to not have firearms on their premises, and I believe that will be close enough for me without having to have a 30.06 sign.

Frankly, I won't lie to a leo and I certainly won't misrepresent something to a judge. I'll just go eat elsewhere.

Interpretation of law always involves risk management. Your level of acceptable risk in this particular case is extremely low. However, I believe that 30.06 is clear enough that CCing into one of these places carries little to no risk of violating 30.06. In fact, although I've heard the news report that these entities do not want people OCing firearms in their establishments, I have not read or heard a single statement by someone authorized to speak for these individual locations prohibiting the licensed concealed carry of firearms. Oddly enough I know for a fact that CC is welcome by store managers at several of these individually owned franchises.
I don't know why anyone would ever feel the need to lie to either a LEO or a judge, especially when you haven't done anything to lie about.

ETA: Do you CC in establishments with gun buster signs on the door? Do you believe that the words "firearms are strictly prohibited" in your employee handbook prevent you from legally carrying at work?

G.A. Heath wrote:I do not believe that someone on TV/Radio reading a statement from a company qualifies as legal notice under 30.06. The person verbally notifying you does not have any authority for the business and with a number of businesses having both company and franchise store you can not tell if the person who issued the statement, which was not given to you, has the authority for any particular locale you visit.

sugar land dave wrote:

jmra wrote:

sugar land dave wrote:OC folks are losing their fight. Protests on their behalf have already cost the CC folks some places where we could earlier take our families and protect them. while eating or having a cup of coffee. No anymore! There's an old saying about not making enemies when you don't have to.

I don't expect any success on OC in 2015. What I do expect is (with luck) a few modest gain's for the CC crowd, but a move to outlaw OC of long guns in public places. You don't always get what you want, but you usually get what you deserve.

I hope I don't lose any more CC friendly businesses to OC protestors.

Which business has put up 30.06 signs because of OC? To my knowledge I can still carry in the places that have asked the OC crowd to stay away.

Since it has widely been reported in the news, can we truthfully say that we have not been notified of the business's preference for their property rights of no-carry. Would a judge believe it?

Yes. Have you read 30.06? I promise you the lawyers for these companies have and they have not put up 30.06 signs. If their intent was to legally restrict CHL they would put up the signs - they have not.

sugar land dave wrote:OC folks are losing their fight. Protests on their behalf have already cost the CC folks some places where we could earlier take our families and protect them. while eating or having a cup of coffee. No anymore! There's an old saying about not making enemies when you don't have to.

I don't expect any success on OC in 2015. What I do expect is (with luck) a few modest gain's for the CC crowd, but a move to outlaw OC of long guns in public places. You don't always get what you want, but you usually get what you deserve.

I hope I don't lose any more CC friendly businesses to OC protestors.

Which business has put up 30.06 signs because of OC? To my knowledge I can still carry in the places that have asked the OC crowd to stay away.

Elza wrote:

jmra wrote:I'm not sure what you are trying to say or the point you are trying to make. My point is very simple, legal or not it is not only stupid to carry a long gun into Walmart, it is also detrimental to the cause of advancing gun rights at both the state and federal level.

I'm saying everyone has their own opinion. And that’s all they are; opinions.

1. Long guns in public bad, hand guns OK. Your opinion (and many others) and y’all are entitled to it.
2. Any gun in public is OK. My opinion (and many others) and we’re entitled to it.
3. Any gun in public is bad. Some people’s opinion and they’re entitled to it. However, I firmly believe that the 2nd Amendment trumps their opinion.

Our opinions don't count for squat. What counts is what is going to get bills passed to advance gun rights in 2015. OC of long guns is detrimental to that cause. This is not opinion, it is fact as stated by those who will be voting on the bills.

Elza wrote:Apples and oranges only from the standpoint of it being an EBR as EBR’s do carry a negative connotation in some circles. So make it a Remington 700 or a Mossberg 500. To me a gun is a gun. I can say that I’ve known people that couldn’t care less about a long gun (EBR’s excepted perhaps) that can’t stand the sight of an “evil handgun the only purpose of which is to kill people”. Very strange to my way of thinking but to each his own.

Personally I couldn’t care less what anyone carries or how they carry it up to and including a Ma Duce over their shoulder. But there are those that disagree to the finer points and therein lies the rub.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say or the point you are trying to make. My point is very simple, legal or not it is not only stupid to carry a long gun into Walmart, it is also detrimental to the cause of advancing gun rights at both the state and federal level.

Elza wrote:

jmra wrote:Sorry, but the guy in Walmart with the AR does bother me. Why? Because he is crying out for attention and people who cry out for attention eventually do irrational things. Please don't tell me it has anything to do with 2A enlightenment because it doesn't. There are much better ways to do that than walk thru Walmart causing a scene. This guy is a bomb waiting to go off.
Even if he never goes off, he is doing nothing to help get Real OC passed in Texas and doing everything to get what we do have taken away.

Pardon me if I play the devil’s advocate here.

Change the first line from:

“Sorry, but the guy in Walmart with the AR does bother me.”

to:

“Sorry, but the guy in Walmart with the exposed handgun does bother me.”


You then have the exact same argument that the anti-gun/anti-open carry folks are saying now. I have absolutely no desire to OC but if that’s what you want it should be your right to do so. My only concern is when Suzie soccer mom gets her panties all twisted up and starts screeching to the manager. Right now there isn't a 30.06 sign in this area that I have seen or heard of and I would hate to see that change. Other than that concern I really don’t have a dog in this hunt.

Apples and oranges. It is not unheard of at all in Texas to see someone walking around with an exposed handgun and no one freaks out. People either don't know it's illegal or they assume (probably correctly) the person is a police officer. Either way it is a completely different reaction than with someone carrying an AR around.
The other obvious difference is intent. The guy carrying the AR in Walmart is doing so solely to draw attention to himself.

I also speak from experience having lived in a state where OC of handguns and long guns were both legal. People simply don't notice a holstered SA handgun, but carry around an EBR and people freak out and (depending on the place) I don't blame them.

rotor wrote:I didn't originate this post. I am commenting that it seems that CHL people seem to be very negative to open carry. From what I have seen many posts seem to reflect that view. I would have thought that people that support 2nd ammendment would have supported open carry too. I didn't intend for this to become an argument, only a reflection of what I see. I am not really sure why CHL people tend to be anti open carry at least from the responses on these posts. Perhaps the majority of CHL are not open carry. I don't see why we can't support CHL and open carry. I am not in favor of the dumb open carry tactics that we all see. I see nothing wrong with having open carry in Texas and CHL for those that prefer concealed. I realize this is a CHL board but there are a lot of open carry posts. Obviously someone has an interest in open carry, perhaps for it and perhaps against it.

I support changing the law to legalize OC of handguns. I do believe demonstrations can be effective. I do not believe demonstrations involving the OC of long guns helps that cause.

A pro life group demonstrates in front of an abortion clinic. Does carrying long guns while demonstrating help or hinder their cause?

A group of parents demonstrates outside a school board meeting to protest the firing of a teacher. Does carrying long guns while demonstrating help or hinder their cause?

A religious group demonstrates for religious freedom. Does carrying long guns while demonstrating help or hinder their cause.

A group of people demonstrates in support of hand gun OC. Does carrying long guns while demonstrating help or hinder their cause?

If you answered "hinder" to the first three, I don't see how you could logically answer differently to the fourth. I know, you are only carrying a long gun because you can't carry a hand gun. The problem with that argument is that the fourth example incites and portrays the same image as the first three examples.

If you truly want to see OC of hand guns in Texas please go out and demonstrate but leave the long gun at home.

TexasGal wrote:Every time I see the OC demonstrations on the local news, I cringe. The impression does not seem a good one for gun owners. Yesterday, a rep for Moms Demand Action was giving an interview to a journalist at one of the demonstrations. I hate to admit it, but she made the better impression. Everyone at my house groaned. Especially when the reporter said MDA is urging businesses where the demonstrations are held to prohibit guns. No mention was made of MDA being a front for MAIG. Why is OCT handing the media and MDA these gift-wrapped opportunities? There has to be better ways.

These OC groups are doing more to advance gun control than MAIG could ever do. When will we wise up and stop shooting ourselves in the foot.

rbwhatever1 wrote:Looks like we have a long way to go to get to Constitutional Carry of handguns in Texas. Hopefully Charles will be successful in his endeavors with the NRA in the 2015 Legislature. Personally I would not OC but having OC'd firearms down main street as a kid and growing up with guns in my closet, guns in the window of my truck in the school parking lot, as well as my children having their guns in their closets, a guy in Wal-Mart with an AR strapped on his back doesn't bother or concern me in the least, unless he's shooting at me.

Free Men don't need permission to Bear Arms.

So do we Texans have a place to send money for NRA Texas efforts? I don't want one penny of my donation leaving Texas and ending up in New Jersey...

Sorry, but the guy in Walmart with the AR does bother me. Why? Because he is crying out for attention and people who cry out for attention eventually do irrational things. Please don't tell me it has anything to do with 2A enlightenment because it doesn't. There are much better ways to do that than walk thru Walmart causing a scene. This guy is a bomb waiting to go off.
Even if he never goes off, he is doing nothing to help get Real OC passed in Texas and doing everything to get what we do have taken away.

Here we go again. Stupidity in motion.