TexasCHLforum.com

speedsix wrote:...there's something against the American spirit, let alone being a Texan, when we're told that we must live in fear of someone else's lack of knowledge of the law..."or we'll take the ride"...it raises my hackles and sets my heels like a bully's taunt...I WILL live within the law...I WON'T let others' ignorance of the law change my right to do something...if they don't listen to reason and check their information, and cause my arrest when I have broken no law...there are civil courts to address that in...yes, it may cost me time and money and trouble...but if you want to follow the fearful warnings...why even carry a gun, 'cause if you shoot someone you might go to jail and you might have to hire an expensive lawyer and you might be found wrong...so let's all just put our guns away and hope for the best...I think not...this country, this state, were formed by folks who weren't timid about putting their butts where their mouths were...they risked their lives for what they believed...I think we can have enough courage to live within our rights instead of worrying about "gettin' in trouble"....

djjoshuad wrote:agreed... not sure if I said something to the contrary, but you're right.

djjoshuad wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:I believe the laws regarding carrying in churches, amusement parks, hospitals, and government meetings changed in 1999, 12 years ago -- and still there are many LEOs that don't know about it. What is your definitions of "relatively new"?

12 years isn't that long for many cops... I'm not saying it's *right* that they're uninformed, or that they have any excuse. My point was that the laws have only been on the books 15-ish years, and they have changed lots of times since then. They could potentially change again this year. Even when we're well within our legal rights, we are still subject to the knowledge level of the LEO in question. CHL holders are more in jeopardy of false arrest than possibly any other group, given that we're carrying deadly weapons and any cop who thinks he's right is going to arrest first and ask questions later.

djjoshuad wrote:I think someone should produce a booklet that fits in ones pocket or vehicle, containing all pertinent Texas (and federal?) laws surrounding CHL. I'd carry one. Or maybe give me an ipad app :)

MasterOfNone wrote:

srothstein wrote:or even a purple stripe painted on trees in certain ways

sjfcontrol wrote:

wgoforth wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:Is it a Texas thing?

Nope, pretty well universal. Seen it on farms/woods in many states... has idea of "keep out: Posted" Trespassers will be shot: No hunting on this here property."

OK -- must just be my city upbringing!

It's not just you. Most people in my CHL classes never heard of this before the class.

clarionite wrote:

wgoforth wrote: You can't, unfortunatly, even believe everything in the training classes. It was a Deputy Sherrif who taught the CHL class I was in, ad he taught (1) Your not allowed to even have a single drop of alcohol to carry (which would be fine with me, but aint so) and (2) He said yoy had to have written authorization of clergy to carry in house of worship. Others can correct me, but I believe police depts are good providing it is not in the areas where they bring the criminals through. Several have said they were taught the same.

My instructor taught the same things. But he explained that being over the limit to carry is subjective, unlike being over the limit to drive which is spelled out as a specific BAC.

I believe when it came to churches though, he said it had to be posted 30.06. I can understand the confusion on a non CHL holder's part when it comes to churches though. The law says in one place that it's against the law to carry in a church or an amusement park. In another place, and on the website it says it's illegal to carry in those places if they're posted with a 30.06 sign. If it's only the 30.06 sign that stops you from carrying there, there's no reason to specifically state those places because it's against the law to carry on any private property that is posted with a 30.06.

wgoforth wrote: Certainly do as you feel best, your there and I'm not... but the sign isn't enforceable, it's a municipal building falling under state preemption, your legal and the cop don't know 30.06 from a doughnut. 3 strikes, he's out. I'd check my concealment and go with it. IF you did the ride, he'd be in the sling not you.

I'd rather not be the one who takes the ride to give the officer the education he needs. But I get a little aggravated that because I carry a weapon I'm supposed to know the weapons laws, but he carry's a weapon, is tasked with upholding those same laws and he's ignorant of the laws.

I've ignored all other gun buster signs, other than the one at the municipal building when it had a court room in it. I've followed all 30.06 signs I've encountered, including the one at AMC 24 that's at ankle level on the door. I haven't been back to AMC 24 because of that sign, Palladium gets my business now. I ignored a 30.05 sign by accident once, because it was posted in a place I didn't see until I left the shop. But I've never been back to that shop either.

I've followed the laws of this state and every other state I've carried in as I understand them. I just wish all LEO were required to understand the laws that deal with CHL better. I'd hate to end up being front page news like the gentleman at the Vegas Costco because someone didn't understand the law. I'm not saying that's what happened in that case, just that I'd hate to be shot because of a misunderstanding.

clarionite wrote:

wgoforth wrote: OK, it was confusing when you said youd get arrested for handing him your CHL...Keep in mind if he runs your DL he is going to know you have a CHL automatically. And you can carry in Police Depts as far as I know as long as it isn't into secure areas. BTW, I have met many LEO's who didn't know gun laws.

Sorry for the counfusion. I know he'll be aware of the CHL when he runs the license. I'm not concerned about that. I told him as much when I asked him the question.
As you said, I can't be arrested for being a CHL holder. I went back and read 46.035 and you might be right about the Police Depts. I don't know if I just lumped Police Depts in with Correctional Facilities when I read it or if it was mentioned in my training course.

Teamless wrote:

clarionite wrote: But this officer insists that a Gun Buster sign prevents CHL carry in that area, and that a City Park is off limits also

Have you talked to his supervisor?
I would, and I would note the date and time.
If anytime after that, you get arrested, falsely, I would think you would have grounds for a lawsuit.

clarionite wrote:

wgoforth wrote:You can't be arrested anywhere for having a CHL. Am I understanding you to say that if I have my CHL and show it in a place that is properly 30.06 I could be arrested for having a CHL??

Not for having a CHL, for carrying your weapon. If I hand the officer my CHL, it's because I'm carrying. If I'm not carrying, I won't hand him my CHL. There's no reason to hand him a Concealed Handgun License if you don't have a Concealed Handgun on you.

I'm talking about a place the officer incorretly believes to be off limits to Concealed Carry, but actually is not. If it's city property and isn't one of the specificly listed areas that are prevented from carry (School, school functions, buildings that contain a court room, Jails, police departments, etc...) then the city can't post a 30.06. But this officer insists that a Gun Buster sign prevents CHL carry in that area, and that a City Park is off limits also.

clarionite wrote:

wgoforth wrote:Why would he arrest you for having a CHL? If they ran your DL, they would know you had one anyway. Just check your concealment method and go for it, unless they have metal detectors.

If he thinks I'm carrying illegally he'll arrest me. And carrying in a restricted area is carrying illegally. If he thinks the area is restricted, even if it really isn't then he'll arrest me if he realizes I'm carrying. If he asks for my ID, legally I have to give him both my ID and CHL if I'm carrying. More than likely I'll never be asked for my ID in one of these places, but stranger things have happened. I was once "pulled over" for taking a walk. I was quitting smoking, and would walk off the cravings. I went for a walk one evening before bed and an officer pulled up beside me and asked me for my ID. It was pre CHL so I wasn't carrying. He asked if I had been drinking. I hadn't. It was a very strange encounter.

"But I'm sure that if that officer were to ask for my ID for some
reason while I were on city property and I gave him both my CHL and DL, he'd arrest me."

sjfcontrol wrote:

wgoforth wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:

srothstein wrote: If you look at the Texas laws on criminal trespass in general (30.05 not 30.06), one of the requirements is always that the owner must notify the person that they may not enter. This notification may take many forms, such as a sign, a locked door, a fence of specific designs, or even a purple stripe painted on trees in certain ways. This seems reasonable to me. You can control your property but you have to let me know what your wishes are.

Does anybody else find this... odd? I suppose a fence, by design, kinda says "stay out", but purple paint on trees? I'd never heard of such a thing until I took my CHL class. If I'm wandering thru the woods, I certainly would not have identified purple paint as saying "stay out". Of course, if I'm wandering thru the woods, I'm probably lost...

Nope, not odd at all. Seen the painted posts/trees most my life.

Is it a Texas thing?

sjfcontrol wrote:

srothstein wrote: If you look at the Texas laws on criminal trespass in general (30.05 not 30.06), one of the requirements is always that the owner must notify the person that they may not enter. This notification may take many forms, such as a sign, a locked door, a fence of specific designs, or even a purple stripe painted on trees in certain ways. This seems reasonable to me. You can control your property but you have to let me know what your wishes are.

Does anybody else find this... odd? I suppose a fence, by design, kinda says "stay out", but purple paint on trees? I'd never heard of such a thing until I took my CHL class. If I'm wandering thru the woods, I certainly would not have identified purple paint as saying "stay out". Of course, if I'm wandering thru the woods, I'm probably lost...

clarionite wrote:The problem with the gun buster sign, is that there are plenty of people who should know the law that don't.
I live in Boerne. Recently they built a new court house and moved the court rooms from the Municipal building.
I go in the Municipal building once a month to pay my utility bill. I disarmed when I entered the building because
there were court rooms in the building. After they moved the court rooms, I happened to be in the other court house,
and asked one of two LEO that was there if all the offices were out of the municipal building. He said that they had
finished moving them all, none remained in the old building. I said good, then I can carry there now. He said no, it
had a "Gun buster" sign. He said that prevented me from carrying there. He said I also coudn't carry at Boerne City Lake
and any of the other city offices. I didn't argue with him. But I'm sure that if that officer were to ask for my ID for some
reason while I were on city property and I gave him both my CHL and DL, he'd arrest me.

i8godzilla wrote:

wgoforth wrote: There are some communities, where half the shops in town have a "gun buster" or no firearms sign. If I suscribed to the view that ANY sign is sufficient, then may as well not have a CHL at all. Besides, what do they mean by the generic signage, I'm no mind reader. Since they have other signs, but not a 30.06, then I have to assume they are saying no guns UNLESS you have a CHL. AND, some post those signs to make the sheeple and/or insurance feel good, while the owners know full well it doesn't apply to CHL.

I always thought that sign was their way a telling me that they did not sell guns there....

WildBill wrote:

wgoforth wrote:There are some communities, where half the shops in town have a "gun buster" or no firearms sign. If I suscribed to the view that ANY sign is sufficient, then may as weell not have a CHL at all. Besides, what do they mean by those, I'm no mind reader. Since they have those signs, but not a 30.06, then I have to assume they are saying no guns UNLESS you have a CHL. AND, some post those signs to make the sheeple feel good, while the owners know full well it doesn't apply to CHL.

This actually deterred me from getting my CHL. That and the "Non Licensed Carry" signs on every grocery, gas station and convenience store that sells beer. It wasn't until I took my class that I realized that they didn't apply to CHL.