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gigag04 wrote:Completely unrelated...

Do you carry when you play beer pong?

No, unless you count my pocket knife.

You're going to hate me resurrecting this thread... but oh well.

I ran into Manon today, one of the girls from that night. We talked for a bit and during the conversation I asked her why they had come over that night.

Turns out that I was right. They were all drinking, both the girls were ranting about how they were mad at Andrew, and then Manon said jokingly, "Hey let's go over there and kick his butt." Well everyone else thought it was a great idea and that led to our wonderful time together. She said they hadn't expected me to be there, and that the guys "didn't have the guts" to carry through on it once they saw Andrew wasn't alone.

Dark was a security guard at the time and had told them that if they got caught he would get them out of it.

Apparently the big guy is gay and thought I was cute.


So, there's the rest of the story.

mr.72 wrote:I would have never guessed...

give the guns to your dad until you grow up enough to figure this out. IMHO.

My dad died when I was 11.

TexasAggie, there were 3 guys all similar in size to me. My friend's a little guy who was too scared to box my 12-year-old little brother when we had gloves and headgear. My concern was mostly from Dark, the guy who I considered the biggest threat due to his demeanor, and who also kept resting his hand on his pocket knife. Now it could have been that he's just in a habit of holding it when not otherwise engaged in some activity, or he was considering pulling it out. I really didn't want to find out.

I don't know if I didn't explain it well or if ya'll are just pulling my leg, but not one of the guys who came through that door was my friend. I knew the girls because they had dated my friend, and I'd met one of the guys once at a party while playing a drinking game. To make it sound like I purposely choose to hang out with guys like that on a regular basis is a bit of a stretch.

I know alcohol doesn't have that many fans on this board, but for me the novelty hasn't worn off yet. I didn't start drinking until I was 21, and I took 4 or 5 months off while I was on crutches recovering from a foot injury. I'm currently 22. My partying is usually restricted to one or two nights a week, and I leave the guns out of it. Please keep in mind that this situation happened while I was watching TV at a friend's house, not out partying or drinking at all. They came there for him and I really do believe that my presence kept him from getting a severe beating. In part because I had met one of the guys at a party previously. Just sayin'

Andrew weighs maybe 150 pounds, think typical computer nerd. I wasn't really counting on him to help if it got physical.

Having only the small gun bothered me because I usually carry a .40 Beretta PX4 14+1 and at least one spare 17 round mag with the 642 being a recent purchase for use as a BUG (after reading TAM's endorsement for it in several threads and then trying one out I opted for the 642 instead of a Khar PM40). This was the first time I was without the PX4. I've only shot about 50 rounds through the 642, having bought it only a week or two ago. It was in an uncle mike's pocket holster in jeans I purchased that day with big enough pockets specifically so it could fit. I guess so much of it was different from what I'm used to that it made me a little more uncomfortable than if I'd been carrying that gun for a month or two.

I fully expected to have to empty the gun and then keep going barehanded or with my pocket knife if I had a chance to reach for it.

As always, the input is appreciated. I'll try and clear some things up that I didn't entirely cover in my first post.

Andrew's new girlfriend is still in the picture, I think she was amused by the ordeal.

Andrew asking if I had a gun wasn't him using it as an ace in the hole for a fight as much as a reasonable concern. He had no idea who the guys were, and he legitimately thought they were possibly his roommate's friends. The roommate wasn't there and there had been a "knock and force in" robbery at the complex maybe two months ago. So it didn't freak him out enough to hide behind a locked door, but he wanted to make sure that if he was about to get mugged that he'd have help. Like I said, I still wouldn't have opened the door. I think he went from on edge about a potential threat to totally at ease when he saw a face he recognized.

My concern with the .38 was lack of ammo for a reload more than size of the bullet. (Haven't gotten a speedloader or two yet and wasn't wearing my cargo shorts that had extra ammo in them). Keep in mind that there were three pretty big guys and I personally would have preferred a little more to go around if need be. Just because I considered Teddy Bear to be the least of the threats doesn't mean I didn't fully expect him to side with his friends if the choice came. I also know that you can do a lot of damage with a knife before some less-than-perfectly placed shots stop you.

Rachael isn't so much my friend as I know who she is. She had dated Andrew for maybe a week before she tried to marry him and he bailed out but remained friends. I was nice to her for his sake, and I'd hung out with her maybe two or three times when she was with Andrew. Same goes for Manon, but they dated longer, so I'd seen more of her. I believe they're both to blame for the set up.

I agree that generally giving alcohol to drunk people is a bad idea. Rachael was driving, she only had one shot. The 3 guys were already pretty drunk and Andrew got them hammered, like to the point were Slim was falling over and Dark had to lean against the wall to stand still. I would much rather fight three guys who are too drunk to stand than 3 guys who are drunk enough not to feel it but still functional. It's also hard to hate on someone who's hooking you up.

I had decided to draw IF a knife was involved. The apartment isn't very big and I'd very easily be within 21 feet and feeling very threatened. Dark kept putting his hand on his knife, and if he drew it I would have drawn and fired. Sorry I wrote this at 8:30 this morning after not having slept and I realize it's a bit disjointed. My legal concern was that I fully intended on drawing and firing as fast as possible at the first sign of drawing / grabbing a weapon instead of waiting to make sure what their intent was. They guy may very well have been pulling out his knife to cut a tag off his pants, but at that distance in those circumstances I wasn't going to wait to find out unless it was obviously nonthreatening.

I was less worried about the way they looked than the way they kept looking like each other. Like each was waiting for the other to initiate the confrontation.

They hadn't done anything worth calling the cops over, and without Andrew asking them to leave I didn't want to risk escalating it by making him take a stand on the issue. We've been friends since middle school and I wasn't going to leave him there alone with his new 5-foot-nothing, maybe 100 pound girlfriend. This is also the first time he has ever put me in a situation like this, and he didn't realize they're intentions 'til after they were inside.

As far as not drinking and having friends who don't drink, we maybe just have a difference of opinion on this. I keep my drinking and my guns very far apart from each other, and neither Andrew nor I were drinking at all last night. I do also live in a college town, and I personally credit my drinking night with Teddy Bear for a lot of the reconsideration that was done on their part. It's a huge difference from "let's go kick that random jerk's butt" to "Oh hey we were drinking buddies and you're offering us shots"... not saying it's right, but it worked. Teddy Bear warmed right up. Slim acted more like he wanted to hate us but couldn't, so he just talked big in front of the girls. Dark was my main concern, he seemed a lot more willing to carry through with their original intent, and it only takes one to start the whole mess.

So last night was the closest I've come in 10 months of carrying almost 24/7 to actually having to draw... and all I had on me was my S&W 642, with only the 5 JHP .38 Special +P Speer Gold Dots in it.

It started off as a quick trip to grab food around 9pm. Then my friend, Andrew, called and asked me to come hang out for a bit with him and a girl he just started dating while a season premier was on for South Park. After the show, Family Guy was on. Then right as I was thinking about heading home, probably around 10:30 ish, there was a knock on the door. He wasn't expecting anyone, and got up to check the peephole. There was no one to be seen. So he sat back down for maybe 5 minutes, when there was another knock. Once again, he got up and checked the door. This time he asked as discretely as possible if I had my gun on me, because he didn't recognize the people. I nodded, and put my hand into my front right pocket snugly around the 642.

I really wanted to tell him that if he had to ask about a gun then it was probably just best to leave the door locked. I didn't get the chance.

Upon opening the door, he realized one of our mutual friends, a girl named Rachael was in front of the door, but she's too short to be seen from the peephole. There were three guys with her, one of whom I randomly knew from an excellent night of beer pong where he and I were partners and won at least 14 games in a row. So some warm fuzzy feelings. Her coming over wasn't abnormal, so I dropped my guard momentarily. We asked about the ghost knock and they at first tried to play it off as if they saw some "random girl" knock and run, but we soon discovered that "random girl" was Andrew's ex. The same ex who had been calling him every time she drank for the past week telling him how horrible of a person he was. She just opened the door and let herself in shortly after the first group entered.

The first guy, to be referred to as Teddy Bear, I wasn't too worried about. Beside having been pretty good party friends (for that one night), he really didn't seem to be much more of a threat than a teddy bear. I think they dragged him along and he didn't really want to be there. The second guy was just a little shorter than I (I'm 6'4") and about the same body build. He was also drunk. We'll call him "Slim". The third guy was obviously sizing me and Andrew up, shorter but stocky, quiet, and also noticeably intoxicated but still functional. He had the crazy eyes going on (Think Josie Wells-style) and I expected him to go off at any minute. We'll call him "Dark". Andrew's ex is named Manon.

Well we introduced ourselves, Teddy Bear and I recognized each other, and exchanged a couple sentences about the great beer pong night. Then Manon walked right on in and Slim explained that they came to talk about her and Andrew's break-up. My hand went back on the gun. Manon sat down next to Andrew's new date and began telling her how horrible of a person he is, and that since I'm his friend I'm just as bad or worse. Slim started by going on about how he doesn't usually start stuff, but if some guy is talking bad about a lady he'll kick his behind. Dark was just sizing us up still, and I was really starting to wish I had my .40 Px4 with a spare mag like I usually carry. Andrew offered everyone a shot of vodka. They accepted. I stuck to my Coke.

It was a very uneasy standoff for maybe 30 minutes during which Andrew explained his side of the story, got Manon to admit she had lied about several things, and freely handed out more shots. Teddy Bear and I made small talk while I kept an eye on Dark. Dark and Slim talked to each other about how they aren't scared of fights, compared knuckles scars from this and that party, etc. Slim told Andrew's date how he'd beaten up 8 guys at the same time by himself before at a point when Andrew was doing damage control with drunk Manon. I strongly urged Rachael to get them out of there, that being drunk with a group of guys isn't the best way to work out your relationship issues. I stopped just short of letting her know that I would shoot her friends if they started a fight. In the end they left with nothing exciting happening.

I'm pretty sure it had been a drunken "let's go kick that guy's behind" trip from the start. It was random chance that I was there, and none of them except Andrew knew I was carrying. I believe in the face of pretty even odds and a very well-played, alcohol encouraged, "oh yeah we're all friends here" facade, they got distracted from their original purpose.

I honestly wasn't entirely sure of the legality of a shoot if one of them made a move but I had decided to pull and shoot anyway. The apartment's set up to where the kitchen, with several knives laying around at the time of the unexpected visit, is easily accessible. I'm not a big fan of drunk, upset ex-girlfriends. Even less so when they're armed. Both Slim and Dark had pocket knives. Technically we were outnumbered, 5 to 3, and the last thing I want happening is for me to get shot by my own gun.

I chose not to tell them all to leave since it wasn't my apartment and Andrew was playing off the friendly, generous host thing.

I guess by the "everyone went home and you're not in jail" rule I did ok, and please note this is not my crazy ex. I haven't talked to her in quite some time.

Thoughts?