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J Wilson wrote:Check #12 on chart.I think DaveT is correct

J Wilson,

In my post that tank wants to correct me on, I was totally correct about the angled foregrip being legal. That is verified on the chart I posted earlier.

However, I also made a statement that a vertical foregrip was illegal.... and that's the part of what I said that Tank corrected me on. Actually, he and I are both right.

The regs and the chart state that an vertical foregrip is illegal, UNLESS the overall length of the AR-Pistol is OVER 26 inches.

I was referring to what I know about my AR-pistol, which is well under 26 inches in overall length.... so for my weapon, what I stated is right, a vertical foregrip is illegal.

What I failed to take into consideration, and what Tank is right about, is AR-pistols that exceed 26 inches in overall length are legal with a vertical foregrip.

I should have been more specific, that might have avoided all this fuss. I'm an old guy, but even after a lifetime of weapon use in both the military and as a Police Officer, I will be the first to admit that I am no expert, and certainly do not know it all. What I am confident about is that there are always folks that know more than I do, and I respect them for their knowledge.

And just for the record, I do not get my feelings hurt over internet stuff. There's way too many more important things in life to worry about.

Tank wrote:

DaveT wrote:
The addition of a vertical foregrip is not legal and would change the weapon's designation from an AR pistol to a short barreled rifle.

This was incorrect information you were giving, sorry that your feeling were hurt.

Not a problem, Tank.

carlson1 wrote:

DaveT wrote:To save some the bother of feeling like they need to correct me,
I'm not saying anything else on the subject.

Cheers !

I am not correcting you. I think you are right. I especially like the visual of the chart, but the ATF letter backs up the chart.

Old friend, rest assured that my comment was NOT directed at you !

To save some the bother of feeling like they need to correct me,
I'm not saying anything else on the subject.

Cheers !

My thanks to Brooks Colson at Heart of Texas Guns here in Abilene, Tx for posting this on FB last night:

carlson1 wrote:

DaveT wrote:The forearm is totally legal, I also have a copy of the explanation from ATF to that effect. I can post it here if you need it.

The addition of a vertical foregrip is not legal and would change the weapon's designation from an AR pistol to a short barreled rifle.

If you can post it that would be great.

It appears everyone has their on ideal. I guess you need to carry a copy of a letter everywhere you go.

Carlson, the 3 page document that Tank posted the link to is exactly what I have.

I did not read it in detail like Tank did and has previously posted about. All I was interested in, and what I posted about, was the specific question and answer about the Magpul vertical foregrip, which is Question number 7 on page 3.

The forearm is totally legal, I also have a copy of the explanation from ATF to that effect. I can post it here if you need it.

The addition of a vertical foregrip is not legal and would change the weapon's designation from an AR pistol to a short barreled rifle.

Seabear wrote:That's a wild looking piece of equipment Dave. Very nice.

What upper is that?

Seabear, I first posted that it had an Anderson upper, but I went back and looked at all the correspondence I had with the guy I traded with for the AR-pistol, it had a kg Paladin upper and an American Tactical poly lower, and looked like this:



The poly lower had issues with some mags. Standard metal mags worked fine, but I could hit it hard on the side and my Magpul mags would fall right out. That was not acceptable, so I replaced the poly lower with the Spikes Tactical as soon as I could.

I'm indebted to a good friend down in the Houston area that turned me on to the idea of an AR Pistol, some of the accessories and the Sig Brace.

I absolutely love mine (7.5 with Spikes Tactical lower) and have it equipped to where I consider it a very good home defense weapon.

What I liked the most about the Sig Brace is that is comes with a copy of the letter from ATF back to Sig explaining that the addition of a Sig Brace does not change the designation of an AR pistol, nor does shooting from the shoulder using the Sig Brace as a shoulder stock.

After making another copy of the ATF letter, I carry it in the AR-pistol's gun case in the event a LEO somewhere down the line is not well informed. Note: that is not a slam against LEO.... I was one and my son is one. When he first saw my AR-pistol, his first statement was "is that legal?" He is a highly educated LEO, so when I heard him ask that, I decided it might be a good idea to keep a copy of the ATF letter handy.

I keep mine loaded up with a 10 round Magpul mag for low profile, but also have several 30 round Magpuls in the AR-pistol's carry case.



The light is a very bright Streamlight TLR-1 HL and mounted on the top rail, it is just the right height to stay under the line of sight with either the Magpul front and rear sights or the Primary Arms Micro Dot. On the bottom rail, at the very front is a Crimson Trace Rail Master CMR-201 with red dot. It is so small, I forget it's even there, but it emits a very bright laser dot.