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dihappy wrote:For the most part, i think "skilled" KF'ing BG's are few and far between.

Id take a skilled handgunner over a skilled KF any day.

Heck, you gotta be more than skilled in KF to even get close enough to someone with situational awareness.

If you're carrying a knife clenched in your teeth....then yes.

Otherwise, you'd be very surprised to discover that an average sized man can "palm" an eight inch knife and you would never know it.

I'd wager I could walk right up to you (within several feet).... before you would have any clue that I had a knife at the ready.

I would have to agree that the average BG is probably not an edged weapons instructor, but they do practice the tools/techniques of their trade (especially in the prisons). Even a novice with a knife can be quite a handful if you are caught unawares.

pbandjelly wrote:Thanks for the clarification, and I agree, edged weapons have a shorter range, but within that range they are lethal!
In all of my years of martial arts, I never saw an instructor advise going for your own weapon before engaging. It was usually engage (and this included creating distance) then counter, or disarm....
shewt, sometimes a simple sidestep was all that was necessary to create enough distance!
anyway, just wanted the rest of your perspective on that topic. obviously didn't get all of your point from that one post.

Not to worry, I've never been accused of having good communication skills.

KBCraig wrote:

flintknapper wrote:I was most certainly contesting the idea that you WILL prevail against an attacker if you simply "keep your head" and have a gun.

Since that came from my post, let me re-state it thusly: "The only way you have a chance to prevail against a knife attacker is if you keep your head (and preferably have a gun)."

As you said, it's about attitude. There are no guarantees. A trained KF with a 1.5" Swiss Army pen knife can deliver disabling and fatal strikes. A lucky CHL with a .25 can deliver a single instantly fatal shot. Neither should be considered the norm, and no one should just "lay down and die" because they're faced with a knife, no more than they should when they're faced with a gun.

Kevin

Kevin,

I hope you take no offense to my posts, its just that these are two very different statements:

3. So long as you keep your head about you and bring a gun to the knife fight, you will survive.

"The only way you have a chance to prevail against a knife attacker is if you keep your head (and preferably have a gun)."

I am afraid that too many people already have the misconception that a "firearm" is a vastly superior weapon to a knife. Overconfidence in your weapon or your ability to use it effectively has filled many a grave.

As concerns edged weapons defense, you FIRST need to create time and distance (if possible). THEN.....you can access your weapon. With few exceptions....I see people advocating "going for your gun".

Well....... at contact distances this leaves you with ONE hand/arm to fight with while your attacker is slashing/stabbing you. A trained KF will delight in this unfortunate move.

Do some role playing, develop techniques that allow you (within your physical constraints) to ward off an attack long enough to safely acquire your firearm.

Don't just think that because you have a firearm and big bundle of willpower that you will prevail. Just 'taint so..........

Again, I did not anywhere say "lay down and die/ give up all hope...etc", I am just reiterating: Take edged weapons seriously.


Thanks,

Flint

[quote="pbandjelly]

so, the advice you're offering would be to just give up? cause he may be trained proficiently?

I think Kev's advice to keep your head about you and believe you're going to get out alive is very valid. it's that old adage about thinking positively.

from what you're saying, you should just believe it's all over, I guess.

pband,

I am not quite certain how you extracted all of the above from what I wrote.

First, I offered no "advice" of any kind (giving up or otherwise).

But, I was most certainly contesting the idea that you WILL prevail against an attacker if you simply "keep your head" and have a gun.

The original poster alluded to a person "proficient" with a knife (this does not mean someone who is just going to slash at you a bunch).

While proper "mindset" is a very important part of any actual fight, it only means that: Mentally "you have the will to fight/survive/endure".

However, If you lack the physical ability (or training) to successfully defend against an attack.....then "mindset" just means you died determined.

The purpose of my post was not to suggest that a person curl up in the fetal position and cry for their mommy when confronted by someone with a knife. Rather, I would have you understand how truly dangerous a situation this is, and to avoid it... any way humanly possible.

Distance....is your friend where edged weapons are concerned.
Distance....is your friend where edged weapons are concerned.
Distance....is your friend where edged weapons are concerned.

If you can maintain distance....AND you have a gun (and are competent with it), then I like your odds. If you can not maintain distance and the attacker is trained/skilled....you are in serious trouble.

The next edged weapons seminar we have....I would like for you to attend. I will pay half of your admission fee to help facilitate this. I think a demonstration will be more convincing than any words I could pen here.

Bottom line: Take all edged weapons threats seriously! You do not know the BG's level of experience. I am NOT saying "give up", I am saying "study up" so you'll have an idea of what might occur and what you can/can't.....should/shouldn't do.

Thank you for your thoughts and participation in what I think is one of the most misunderstood threats of all.

Flint.

KBCraig wrote:As the old saying goes, you can always tell the winner of a knife fight: he's the one in Intensive Care. The loser is in the morgue.

Hollywood has had its effect on knife mythology the same way it has affected everything else. Good guys get shot ten times in the movies and keep on fighting, but a single knife wound is instantly fatal.

Truth is, face-to-face knife fighting is all about opening as many wounds as possibly, and hastening exsanguination. Some wounds count more than others; major arteries bleed faster.

If you're ever faced with a knife, here are some important things to remember:

1. You will get cut.
2. You will bleed more than you thought was humanly possible.
3. So long as you keep your head about you and bring a gun to the knife fight, you will survive.
4. Most fatal knife wounds allow several minutes of fighting/survival time.
5. Stop the fight, then stop the bleeding.
Kevin

On point (1): Yes, there is a high probability you will be cut/stabbed anytime a dedicated attacker gets within arms reach of you.

On point (2): Depends on the wound(s), but a "little" blood looks like a lot....when its yours!

Point (3): Is a very dangerous assumption to make. A trained knife fighter will have skills that you may not be aware of. A good knife fighter is not just trying to "cut you" or "trade blows". Any properly trained KF is probably going to disarm you (defang the snake). Every cut/thrust is purposeful in that they are calculated to disable you bio-mechanically.

Blood loss is just a by product. Cutting perpendicular to major muscle groups and flexor/tensor tendons will render you unable (physically) to defend yourself with that body part. This can happen very quickly, and is extremely difficult to defend against.

Point (4): It may indeed take several minutes for you to "bleed out" (same for gunshot wounds), but your ability "to fight" during this time may have been severely compromised. I would strongly caution against relying on this.

Point (5) Yup!

Truth is, face-to-face knife fighting is all about opening as many wounds as possibly, and hastening exsanguination. Some wounds count more than others; major arteries bleed faster.

For a "street thug" this may be true. For a trained knife fighter, no.

A person (well trained) is seeking to "disable" you. You will probably suffer many "auxiliary cuts" in the process.... as they move from point A to point B on the target. We don't waste motion in knife fighting.

Additionally, most "trained" KF's will have empty hands skills that the average Joe with a gun does not.


Don't think that because you "have a gun" that you will necessarily come out the winner. Even a "mutual kill" is unacceptable.


Just my .02 on it.

longtooth wrote:Wildscar,
From your description I am sure that I have the pictures you are referring to. Regardless of the facts being verified the cuts are evident.
If any one wants them feel free to send them PM. You are right about the grafic nature of the pics & we have edited some war pics that should not have been posted on the open board.
I would rather face a gun at 3 ft than a knife. Especially in the hands of one who knows how to use the knife.
They are not second class weapons.

Same photos I shared with you about a year ago. (not suitable for general viewing), I'm sure you agree.

+1 on facing gun over knife (in hands of someone trained and dedicated).