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Oldgringo wrote: * Beiruty, Are the so-called moderate Muslims denouncing the atrocities committed by their fellow extremist Muslims...anywhere? Again, was the suicide bombing in the marketplace in Pakistan today a good thing or a bad thing? Was the suicide bombing of the WTC's on 9/11/2001 a good thing or a bad thing? Yes or No.

If the moderate Muslims far outnumber the extremists as we are told, what's the problem? The moderates overpower the extremists by sheer weight of numbers and goodness and peace prevails - or does it go deeper than that?

Oldgringo wrote:

Beiruty wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:Here we go again. Will it ever end?

From the Article:

The Pakistani Taliban claimed responsibility for Saturday's suicide attack in Khar, through its spokesman, Azam Tariq.
The spokesman suggested the victims may have been targeted because most of them belonged to the Salarzai tribe, which was among the first to set up a militia — known as a lashkar — to fight the Taliban in 2008. Other tribes later formed similar militias to resist the militants.
"All anti-Taliban forces — like lashkars, army and security forces — are our target," he said. "We will strike them whenever we have an opportunity."
The attack killed 45 people, including six policemen, and wounded more than 100, at least 30 critically, said Tariq Khan, a government official in the Bajur region.

Is this a good thing or is it a bad thing? Just askin...

Oldgringo wrote:Here we go again. Will it ever end?

The Pakistani Taliban claimed responsibility for Saturday's suicide attack in Khar, through its spokesman, Azam Tariq.
The spokesman suggested the victims may have been targeted because most of them belonged to the Salarzai tribe, which was among the first to set up a militia — known as a lashkar — to fight the Taliban in 2008. Other tribes later formed similar militias to resist the militants.
"All anti-Taliban forces — like lashkars, army and security forces — are our target," he said. "We will strike them whenever we have an opportunity."
The attack killed 45 people, including six policemen, and wounded more than 100, at least 30 critically, said Tariq Khan, a government official in the Bajur region.

Oldgringo wrote:

Beiruty wrote:

How does this correlate to the Quran telling Muslims to kill the unbelievers where ever they may be found?

Limited to battlefield and combatants at time of war. That is traditional warfare.

The World Trade Centers were a battlefield and the some 3,000 killed in and aound them on 9/11/2001 were all combatants, eh?

How does this correlate to the Quran telling Muslims to kill the unbelievers where ever they may be found?

On the eve of the conquest, Abu Sufyan adopted Islam. When asked by Muhammad, he conceded that the Meccan gods had proved powerless and that there was indeed "no god but Allah", the first part of the Islamic confession of faith. In turn, Muhammad declared Abu Sufyan's house a sanctuary:
"He Who enters the house of Abu Sufyan will be safe, He who lays down arms will be safe, He who locks his door will be safe".[4] He also declared:
Allah has made Mecca a sanctuary since the day He created the Heavens and the Earth, and it will remain a sanctuary by virtue of the sanctity Allah has bestowed on it until the Day of Resurrection. It (fighting in it) was not made lawful to anyone before me. Nor will it be made lawful to anyone after me, and it was not made lawful for me except for a short period of time. Its animals (that can be hunted) should not be chased, nor should its trees be cut, nor its vegetation or grass uprooted, nor its Luqata (most things) picked up except by one who makes a public announcement about it.'[5] Then along with his companions Muhammad visited the Kaaba. The idols were broken and the so-called gods were destroyed. Thereupon Muhammad recited the following verse from the Qur'an:"Say the Truth is come and falsehood gone; Verily falsehood is ever vanishing."[6]
The people assembled at the Kaaba, and Muhammad delivered the following address:
"There is no God but Allah. He has no associate. He has made good His promise that He held to his bondman and helped him and defeated all the confederates. Bear in mind that every claim of privilege, whether that of blood or property is abolished except that of the custody of the Ka'aba and of supplying water to the pilgrims. Bear in mind that for any one who is slain the blood money is a hundred camels. People of Quraish, surely God has abolished from you all pride of the time of ignorance and all pride in your ancestry, because all men are descended from Adam, and Adam was made of clay." Then Muhammad turning to the people said:
"O Quraish, what do you think of the treatment that I should accord you?"
And they said, "Mercy, O Prophet of Allah. We expect nothing but good from you."
Thereupon Muhammad declared: "I speak to you in the same words as Joseph spoke to his brothers. This day there is no reproof against you; Go your way, for you are free."[7] Muhammad's prestige grew after the surrender of the Meccans. Emissaries from all over Arabia came to Medina to accept him.
Ten people were ordered to be killed:[1], Ikrimah ibn Abi-Jahl, Abdullah ibn Saad ibn Abi Sarh, Habbar bin Aswad, Miqyas Subabah Laythi, Huwairath bin Nuqayd, Abdullah Hilal and four women who had been guilty of murder or other offences or had sparked off the war and disrupted the peace[1].
However, they were not all killed; Ikrimah lived to adopt Islam and fight in future battles among Muslim ranks.

Did Prophet Muhammad order 900 Jews killed ?



From Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland,
(1976), pp. 100-107.


IT IS WELL KNOWN THAT at the advent of Islam there were three Jewish tribes who lived in Yathrib (later Medina), as well as other Jewish settlements further to the north, the most important of which were Khaybar and Fadak. It is also generally accepted that at first the Prophet Muhammad hoped that the Jews of Yathrib, as followers of a divine religion, would show understanding of the new monotheistic religion, Islam. However, as soon as these tribes realized that Islam was being firmly established and gaining power, they adopted an actively hostile attitude, and the final result of the struggle was the disappearance of these Jewish communities from Arabia proper.

The biographers of the Prophet, followed by later historians, tell us that Banu Qaynuqa.,1 and later Banu al-Nadir,2 provoked the Muslims, were besieged, and in turn agreed to surrender and were allowed to depart, taking with them all their transportable possessions. Later on Khaybar3 and Fadak4 were evacuated. According to Ibn Ishaq in the Sira,5 the third of the Jewish tribes, Banu Qurayza, sided with the Qura****es and their allies, who made an unsuccessful attack on Medina in an attempt to destroy Islam. This, the most serious challenge to Islam, failed, and the Banu Qurayza were in turn besieged by the Prophet. Like Banu al-Nadir, in time they surrendered, but unlike the Banu al-Nadir, they were subjected to the arbitration of Sa'd b. Mu'adh, a member of the Aws tribe, allies of Qurayza. He ruled that the grown-up males should be put to death and the women and children subjected to slavery. Consequentiy, trenches were dug in the market-place in Medina, and the men of Qurayza were brought out in groups and their necks were struck.6 Estimates of those killed vary from 400 to 900.

On examination, details of the story can he challenged. It can be demonstrated that the assertion that 600 or 800 or 9007 men of Banu Qurayza were put to death in cold blood can not be true; that it is a later invention; and that it has its source in Jewish traditions. Indeed the source of the details in earlier Jewish history can be pointed out with surprising accuracy.

More and reset of the article: http://forum.mpacuk.org/showthread.php?t=2255" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Full article: http://www.jews-for-allah.org/jewish-my ... killed.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thomas wrote:Do they believe that Paradise will last forever? (Because a person is only a virgin once).

Oldgringo wrote:

Beiruty wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:Thanks for the clarification. So, what good are the 70-72 virgins to a martyed married man and what are some of the other priviledges?

The 70 Virgins are one of the priviliges for the Martyr. The deal is if one of the Virgins is more beautiful than any women in our life on earth. And, if any one of those Virgins was ever presnted to us men on this earth, we would be all in awe and wonder. That being said, a woman who enters paradise will be more beautiful than anyone of those virgins. In fact, they will praise the wife of the Martyr and submit to her superiority over them.
Other privileges of the Martyr, and this is the most imprtant, is that all their sins are forgiven and they wll bear no punishment in the hereafter and will be among the first to enter paradise. Also, if they had debt and dues to others their debt and dues will be repaid in the hereafter.

Other privileges of the Martyr, include interceding in favor of large number of his family members so they would not be punished or some of their sins would be forgiven. Interceding usually is reserved for Prophets and Messengers of God, Martyrs and very few others.

So, one can achieve this glory for oneself and one's family if one blows him or herself and a bunch of other folk up up in a church, synagogue, marketplace and or school, etc?

I think I'm gonna' have to pass, thanks anyway.

baldeagle wrote:I hate to say it, but the father did the right thing. The only way to defeat evil is to destroy it utterly.

Oldgringo wrote:Thanks for the clarification. So, what good are the 70-72 virgins to a martyed married man and what are some of the other priviledges?