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Shorts wrote:What if it was illegal to keep your car gassed up, would you still buy a car?

Looks like you've quit on the dialog at hand. Thanks for playing, I'm getting back to my holsters

Depends, what is your definition of "gassed up"?

In all seriousness though, I don't disagree with your preferences, I just have different ones.

WildBill wrote:

jeeperbryan wrote:What if it was illegal to carry a gun with one in the chamber? Would you stop carrying because your gun is useless now?

FWIW, you can carry a handgun with an empty chamber without a CCW in Utah.

So you have to have a CCW to carry with one in the chamber? That's weird.

What if it was illegal to carry a gun with one in the chamber? Would you stop carrying because your gun is useless now?

Shorts wrote:
It'll be as useless as the person's ability and the intensity of the threat. "Worst argument" or not, its on the list of arguments. You can accept whatever arguments you want. I don't need to rack my brain figuring out new ones for a person to accept as ultimately it's not my butt on the line. If the person chooses to ignore an argument for their own comfort, hopefully they won't end up in a situation where their decision hurt. Hindsight is always 20/20, if you're afforded the luxury of hindsight. And since it skimmed over your head, the hammer comment was mostly in jest. I won't need to point out the irony should things hit the fan and the person fails.
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Understood. But to say a gun with out a bullet in the chamber is worthless, is simply not true. A vehicle without gas in the tank is not worthless. All you have to do is put gas in the tank. Inconvenient? Yes. Worthless? No.

Shorts wrote: A lesson HERE (don't need to read the left field conversation after the main point)

Great example. But what if he shot the dog mistakenly? What if he accidentally shot the innocent owner running behind the dog? Maybe the fact that he didn't have one in the chamber kept him out of jail??

Shorts wrote: What if you had time? Why would I want to take a chance with "what if" if I can skip that step completely? Why should I even consider adding that variable if I don't have to?

Because we're dealing with life and death. And I feel it's fair to ask these questions when dealing with yours or someone else's life.

Shorts wrote: BTW, do tell what is THE BEST reason for carrying one in the chamber so I can switch my reasoning. Because frankly, the end result is the same between the best and worst - having on in the chamber.

There is no best reason for carrying chambered. Just as there is no best reason for carrying unchambered. I'd like to say we can agree to disagree, but I don't disagree with carry chambered. I just like to question the necessity to carry chambered.

Shorts wrote:Carry a hammer if you don't want to load your gun. It'll be cheaper and you don't need a license.

Carrying a gun without one in the chamber does not render it useless. Only if you carry a gun with no ammo does it become useless. This is the worst argument for carrying one in the chamber.

Shorts wrote:You won't have time.

This is the most common and viable argument for carrying one in the chamber. To play devils advocate, what if you did have time though? And because you reacted so quickly, you shot someone by mistake? Maybe they were reaching for their cell phone and you shot them thinking they were armed? How many important decisions have you made in your life that only take 1 second of thought?

TTUchris wrote:I really hope the chance of an AD is lower than 1%. That would imply that there is an AD approximately once every 100 instances of carrying, so about 3-4 per year . I understand your argument, though - that carrying with one in the chamber inherently makes your chance of an AD go over 0%, but I think it's in the neighborhood of .0001%. I'm probably reading too much into it, but I'm a bit of a math nerd.

Yep, the chance of AD is definitely less than 1%. But it's certainly some value greater than 0% :)

Let me just start by saying I am a gun guy, through and through. I've been around guns my entire life and carry everyday. However, I do not carry with one in the chamber. That's just the way I've been brought up so it's most comfortable for me. I've heard tons of stories about accidental discharges of all kinds. Whether its an LEO, military, curious kids, or dummy that forgot to clear the chamber before cleaning their gun. But I've rarely heard the story of someone that drew their gun, couldn't get the slide racked in time, and was killed by the BG. I'm sure they're out there, but not near as common.

My choice is a matter of risk and probability:

1) I figure the probability of an AD is very low (say 1%) because I follow the golden rule and treat every gun as if it's loaded, always. However, the probability of an AD is non-existant (0%) if I do not have a round chambered. With a round chambered, you cannot argue the probability of an AD is 0%. That 1% can be mechanical, environmental, or human error, but there is no denying that there is some probability (even if it's one in a million) of an AD.

2) I figure the probability that I will ever need to draw my gun is very low (hopefully never). It is probably a very, very low probability for the average person (civilian, don't live in dangerous area, etc) as well.

Comparing the two risks, I feel that the probability of an AD is higher than the probability that I would ever need to draw my gun. And I feel that the probability of an AD is much, much higher than the probability that I would ever need to draw my gun, and wouldn't have the time to rack the slide.