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by Excaliber
Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:10 pm
Forum: The Crime Blotter
Topic: Dangerous Traffic Stop - Minnesota Police Officer
Replies: 29
Views: 6252

Re: Dangerous Traffic Stop - Minnesota Police Officer

bblhd672 wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Excaliber wrote:The biggest issue here appears to be a miscommunication between the officer and the driver. Here is my take:

The officer gave two commands - to produce the license and not to reach for the gun. He didn't know where either of those items was located in the vehicle. The driver understood and believed he was complying because he reached for his driver's license, which in this case was apparently near his gun. When the officer observed the gun, he believed the driver was attempting to draw it and he responded with (an awful lot of) deadly force.

Here are my suggested takeaways to avoid a similar situation:

1. Do not keep identification items on the same side where the gun is holstered.
2. When advising the officer you are armed, tell him where the gun is and where the identification is.
3. Do not reach for ID with the hand that's on the same side as the gun
4. Keep hands on the steering wheel and do not move until you are certain that both you and the officer have the same understanding of what you are about to do.

My response to an officer's request for my driver's license is:

With both hands on the steering wheel, engine off, keys on the dash, and if after dark with interior light on:

"Out of respect for your safety, I want you to know that I am lawfully carrying a handgun in a belt holster behind my right hip. My identification is in my left rear pocket. How would you like me to proceed?"

When I am sure I understand his response, I move only the left hand slowly to withdraw my wallet and I take the license out of it with hands held high in full view at steering wheel level.

I've never had any issues when following this practice.
Excellent post.

Chas.
My wallet is in my hands on top of the steering wheel by the time the officer gets to the window.
There are three reasons I don't recommend having the wallet out before the officer gets to the window:

1. Not all officers on the street are highly experienced professionals with good judgment honed by years of encountering strange situations and managing them correctly. I build my tactics around the worst case scenario - a nervous rookie with very little experience and a police academy textbook "can I make a case for shooting him" instead of a "is it absolutely necessary to shoot him" approach to deadly force decisions.

2. In order to get the wallet out, you need to make movements that could easily appear as attempts to either hide something or reach for a weapon to an officer who will be watching activity in the car very closely as he pulls you over and approaches the vehicle. This will increase the pucker factor for him and also increase his level of readiness for a defensive response.

2. Wallets and cell phones have been mistaken for guns many times with tragic results. The low light situation of an after dark traffic stop increases the likelihood that this could happen, but it could happen in daylight as well.
by Excaliber
Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:34 am
Forum: The Crime Blotter
Topic: Dangerous Traffic Stop - Minnesota Police Officer
Replies: 29
Views: 6252

Re: Dangerous Traffic Stop - Minnesota Police Officer

The biggest issue here appears to be a miscommunication between the officer and the driver. Here is my take:

The officer gave two commands - to produce the license and not to reach for the gun. He didn't know where either of those items was located in the vehicle. The driver understood and believed he was complying because he reached for his driver's license, which in this case was apparently near his gun. When the officer observed the gun, he believed the driver was attempting to draw it and he responded with (an awful lot of) deadly force.

Here are my suggested takeaways to avoid a similar situation:

1. Do not keep identification items on the same side where the gun is holstered.
2. When advising the officer you are armed, tell him where the gun is and where the identification is.
3. Do not reach for ID with the hand that's on the same side as the gun
4. Keep hands on the steering wheel and do not move until you are certain that both you and the officer have the same understanding of what you are about to do.

My response to an officer's request for my driver's license is:

With both hands on the steering wheel, engine off, keys on the dash, and if after dark with interior light on:

"Out of respect for your safety, I want you to know that I am lawfully carrying a handgun in a belt holster behind my right hip. My identification is in my left rear pocket. How would you like me to proceed?"

When I am sure I understand his response, I move only the left hand slowly to withdraw my wallet and I take the license out of it with hands held high in full view at steering wheel level.

I've never had any issues when following this practice.

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