Search found 3 matches

by Excaliber
Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:31 am
Forum: The Crime Blotter
Topic: OK: Tulsa LEO Charged with Manslaughter
Replies: 50
Views: 9512

Re: OK: Tulsa LEO Charged with Manslaughter

Skiprr wrote:
Keith B wrote:Your trigger finger reacts the same as your non-trigger finger, and when he fired his taser she may have flinched and tightened her grip, causing the trigger finger to tighten as well.

There is a good article on the incident and SMR here https://www.policeone.com/training/arti ... ng-Points/
And a dated but still pertinent and related article from Force Science Institute: http://www.forcescience.org/fsnews/3.html.

Part of it briefly describes a study by Christopher Heim that included 33 male and 13 female officers of varying years of service who were given a SIG P226 equipped with sensors on the grip and trigger. This was a live role-play scenario where they were sent one at a time into a room to arrest a "suspect" following departmental regs and acting in way they thought appropriate. During the scenario, 34 of 46 officers drew the SIG; one intentionally fired. Of the other 33, all insisted their fingers never went inside the trigger guard, per protocol.

The sensor data showed that seven of the 33, over 21%, had touched index finger to trigger with enough pressure to activate the sensor. The officer who chose to shoot said he'd kept his finger well clear of the trigger until the moment he decided to fire. But the sensor data showed he'd touched the trigger twice before firing, and had let let his finger rest on the trigger for a significant period of time before intentionally pulling it.

Nobody can have enough training and practice. Unfortunately, not many PDs have the resources to provide extensive, ongoing firearms training for any but possibly speciality officers, like SWAT. I'm not going to pull this thread off topic, but I believe the environment we're seeing now will force many law enforcement departments to reallocate budgetary funds--they are unlikely to get new funding--for individual interaction and social training, taking the budget money from other areas. Social sensitivity training is not going to do a thing to improve firearm discipline under stressful conditions...and may even get some officers killed because they will wait to deploy their weapons until after they should have.
As the article above shows (I recommend reading the whole thing) the factors behind unintended discharges are much more complex than most folks realize and keeping the finger outside the trigger guard is not the perfect panacea it sounds like because that may be much harder to do under stress than one would think.

Awareness of this as an issue affects everyone who carries or even occasionally uses a gun.
by Excaliber
Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:03 am
Forum: The Crime Blotter
Topic: OK: Tulsa LEO Charged with Manslaughter
Replies: 50
Views: 9512

Re: OK: Tulsa LEO Charged with Manslaughter

Liberty wrote:Bothers me that an instantaneous decision can be turned into a criminal charge. It looks to me from the information we have, that she was wrong. She probably shouldn't be a cop anymore but 4 years of prison for a cop is gonna be pretty rough. Its a fine line between Law enforcement and being a felon.
Prayers for her, cause she is probably a good person with a good heart, who screwed up with a twitch of her finger.
Yes, it's sobering to think that a single instantaneous and non-maliciously intended decision can turn into 4 years in prison in the blink of an eye. It's also sobering that the same instantaneous decision ended a life with no 4 year limit on death.

And under slightly different circumstances, a half second hesitation in firing can end up in a dead officer.

This is the real world LEO's live in, call after call, day after day and year after year.

It's also the world an LTC enters when he or she becomes involved in a situation where a firearm is drawn.
by Excaliber
Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:55 am
Forum: The Crime Blotter
Topic: OK: Tulsa LEO Charged with Manslaughter
Replies: 50
Views: 9512

Re: OK: Tulsa LEO Charged with Manslaughter

nightmare69 wrote:I believe she panicked when the male officer discharged his taser. I refuse to believe she killed the man in cold blood.

It is nerve racking staring down the sights at another living person knowing their life rest in your hands.
I agree that the discharge of the taser may have been the the thing that occasioned her shot, but I think panic is less likely than an unintended discharge due to her years of service. I also agree that this was not a cold blooded killing.

I have a suspicion that her finger may have been on the trigger before a decision to shoot was actually made, and she may have been startled enough by the taser discharge to cause her trigger finger to flex enough to fire the weapon.

If this turns out to be the case, it would be another sad reminder of the importance of Rule 3.

The investigation will hopefully give us more information to learn from this tragic event.

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