Search found 5 matches

by Excaliber
Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:27 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: LEOSA and TCOLE
Replies: 27
Views: 16858

Re: LEOSA and TCOLE

srothstein wrote:I can see that, Excalibur. I was thinking of people using the TCOLE card as their ID, not as their proof of qualification. TCOLE does call it an ID card and I was just pointing out that it is not sufficient for an ID card and that you needed the agency ID card.

Bryanmc, I was not saying TCOLE instructors cannot certify, just LTC instructors do not meet the law. As a matter of law, TCOLE officers must be able to certify officers IF their department adopts a policy allowing it. I guess you could get any officer to sign the form, but I think most would decline unless they were certified instructors. My point was that the TCOLE form asks if a LTC instructor was the certifying officer for weapons qualification but that this does not technically meet the state law. Since the federal law requires someone who can certify active officers, and an LTC cannot do that for TCOLE, then a qualification form signed by a LTC instructor would not be valid, in my opinion. Sorry if I was not clear in my statement about this point.
Good points.

The TCOLE card should probably be called something like "Retired Officer Firearms Proficiency Card" to be in full compliance with the federal law.
by Excaliber
Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:15 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: LEOSA and TCOLE
Replies: 27
Views: 16858

Re: LEOSA and TCOLE

srothstein wrote:
Bryanmc wrote:Interesting that this has been revived. I found it in a search with keywords LEOSA and TCOLE. I had a firearms instructor (state le and chl) tell me that the only valid leosa qualification card in Texas was the one issued by TCOLE. LEOSA says that you have to qualify to state standards by someone qualified to conduct the qual. I'm wondering if the state can actually requires that you have a card issued by TCOLE or a card issued by a state le instructor stating that you met standards is actually sufficient?
The firearms instructor told you wrong in many ways. When you actually read the law (18 USC 926B and 926C), the TCOLE issued card is invalid. Federal law requires you to have an ID card issued by the agency you work (or worked) for. Unless you were a TCOLE officer, the TCOLE card does not meet federal law.

But, there is a different aspect to consider. Texas law recognizes any retired ID card issued by a state, federal, or local law enforcement agency. It does not specify that it be the one you worked for. It does require you to have a Texas qualification form under the Occupations Code. That law contradicts the TCOLE form in one respect. The OC requires that the qualification be issued by a Texas law enforcement agency while TCOLE specifically allows it to be any licensed LTC instructor. This is an interesting contradiction when you think about it.

And most of the officers I know will recognize almost any ID card from a law enforcement agency without looking at the qualification form. Unless it was a bad shooting to begin with, in which case the DA might look at how you had the weapon. The real street world versus the law also can be an interesting contradiction.
There are actually two acceptable ways to meet the credential set requirements under LEOSA.

Under 18 USC 926C (d) 2 A&B, the TCOLE card along with with the photographic retirement ID from the agency the officer worked for constitutes an acceptable document set under the law. The other acceptable document is a retirement ID from the officer's agency that includes certification of having met the qualification standards within the past year. The text of the relevant sections reads:

(d) The identification required by this subsection is—

(1) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual separated from service as a law enforcement officer that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the active duty standards for qualification in firearms training as established by the agency to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or

(2)(A) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual separated from service as a law enforcement officer; and

(B) a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides or by a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within that State that indicates that the individual has, not less than 1 year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State or a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within that State to have met—

(I) the active duty standards for qualification in firearms training, as established by the State
, to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or

(II) if the State has not established such standards, standards set by any law enforcement agency within that State to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.
by Excaliber
Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:19 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: LEOSA and TCOLE
Replies: 27
Views: 16858

Re: LEOSA and TCOLE

Pauly wrote:Texas Govt. Code refers to “License to Carry a Handgun”. You do not need a TX CHL to carry under LEOSA. Therefore, if I don’t have a TX CHL I am not carrying a handgun under authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Govt Code.
As I understand it, even if you have an LTC and also qualify annually under LEOSA, your LEOSA-related privileges kick in where the LTC's end. This includes the exemption from prohibited places carry restrictions under PC46.15a(5) and the restrictions specifically applied to those who carry only under the LTC.

If this were not the case, commissioned LEO's would lose many of their carry privileges if they also maintain an LTC.
by Excaliber
Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:46 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: LEOSA and TCOLE
Replies: 27
Views: 16858

Re: LEOSA and TCOLE

ScottDLS wrote:Don't forget GFSZA when driving within 1000ft of a school. There is no LEOSA exception to GFSZA... :shock:


Has anyone who actually did shoot someone on school property ever been charged under that?
by Excaliber
Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:07 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: LEOSA and TCOLE
Replies: 27
Views: 16858

Re: LEOSA and TCOLE

The annual cost for the TCOLE card is now $35.

An LTC instructor can sign off on the qualification - it doesn't have to be a TCOLE instructor.

The "carry almost everywhere" provisions are state specific. LEOSA gives qualified retirees only the same privileges as the LTC or equivalent license in each state. In Texas, the additional privileges come from the exemption contained in PC 46.15(a)5. Some other states (e.g. Missouri) have similar provisions, but you have to be careful to check ahead of time before visiting to prevent possible misunderstandings.

If you want to carry both pistols and revolvers you have to qualify with one of each type of weapon every year (not every individual gun you may want to carry.)

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