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by Excaliber
Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:58 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Knife on the Freeway
Replies: 37
Views: 4851

Re: Knife on the Freeway

sjlong wrote:First let me thank everyone who responded to my post.

I tried to post as accurately as possible what my wife reported to me. Yes, it certainly does seem rather stupid of the individual to have given identifying information, and to supposedly have insurance, but a suspended license, and then threaten with a drawn knife. But this is what she reported to me. She said she did report this to the police when they arrived at the scene, and gave them the identifying information. She also said that the individual has outstanding warrants, which, I believe, she learned after the cops ran a check on his ID. Needless to say, they were very interested in pursuing this individual.

As to what to do if you are the victim in this scenario, if I read my Texas law code correctly, you are justified in using deadly force if you are being assaulted, and assaulted means that you are receiving, or are in immediate fear of receiving, bodily harm or death, from another person. Further, that assault is aggravated if the other person is using a deadly weapon. Seems to me that under these circumstances, if you just shot the guy and he died by the time the cops arrived, they would find him there with his knife, blade exposed, in his hand, and your prints are nowhere on his person or the knife. A knife with an exposed blade is a deadly weapon for sure, so it would seem to me to be the end of the story: I can't see how a grand jury would indict under those circumstances and under the Texas law code. If it would be argued that you used excessive force, or over-reacted, what is the difference if the perpetrator took out a pistol and showed it to you, threatening you if you reported to the police? Both the knife and the gun are deadly weapons, and I can't imagine anyone arguing that you would not be justified in shooting the perp if he took out a gun and threatened you.

My main concern, as I stated in my original post, is that there are thousands of people in Texas, maybe even millions, who are driving illegally, or who have outstanding warrants, who might very well pull this on you in a similar situation, and that if they get a free pass to threaten victims with knives on the roads not to report to the police, aren't we just enabling this and letting them get away with it? Maybe somebody needs to send the message that you cannot threaten someone with a weapon and not get shot?
Having outstanding warrants is not unexpected in conjunction with the behavior described.

This clearly wasn't the first time he'd done something stupid.
by Excaliber
Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:12 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Knife on the Freeway
Replies: 37
Views: 4851

Re: Knife on the Freeway

TexasGal wrote:I'm a bit skeptical of a person joining and immediately posting a very provocative story guaranteed to make people talk a lot about drawing and shooting. It does not make sense to give someone your phone number and insurance only to then make it clear you may harm them if they call the police. Something does not add up. Either the guy was a total nut and/or giving her false info, or the story is suspect.
I agree. However, there's no shortage of folks out there who do things that make no sense whatsoever to the rest of us.

If the story is true and reasonably complete, the outcome clearly indicates that deadly force was not needed to resolve it because none was used and the situation in fact deescalated with no injury to anyone, which is the best possible outcome.

Justification for using deadly force in that situation is another matter. Under the circumstances as described, the jeopardy part of the triad of circumstances needed to use deadly force lawfully is arguably incomplete. According to the story, the implied threat to use the knife was not immediate - it would only occur if the other party called the police. One could argue this one either way. In a practical sense, it would come down to what the innocent party believed the real intentions of the knife holder was and, if she decided the threat was immediate and deadly force was the only or best reasonable option, how to explain that to responding police after the threat had been neutralized.

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