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Heartland Patriot wrote:I didn't down anyone's choice of what pistol or brand they carry. I simply stated that I, me personally, felt better having a safety on my pistol after seeing that video. If others DON'T want that, then they are free to purchase and carry whatever works for them. We all win when there is a variety of good quality designs with different features.

I agree with you that either option is fine for folks who are willing to learn how their pistol operates and practice enough to be able to operate it competently under stress.

At the empire state building shooting, the issues were tactics, marksmanship, and fire discipline.

With the DEA agent's video, the issues were irresponsibility and negligence.

All of those issues emanated from the area between the left ear and the right. Nothing on the guns involved would have fixed them.

baldeagle wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

baldeagle wrote:No. I was saying that if you have a DA/SA pistol and you carry it cocked, you're crazy. A 1911 (or any pistol) that has a safety should be carried cocked, right? Forgot about the Glocks.

Sorry for the confusion.

I used to own a USP Compact .40 which could be carried cocked and locked, or decocked DA. I carried it both ways.

Let me see if I can unscramble my horrible explanation. I meant that you shouldn't carry cocked and unlocked. Many modern semi-autos cannot be locked, so they should never be carried cocked. Is that better? Or should I give up and go away now?

Many modern striker fired semiautos leave the striker either partially (Glock) or fully (XD) cocked when the slide is cycled. In these guns the striker takes the place of both an external hammer and firing pin in guns like the 1911.

The slide must be cycled in order to put a round in the chamber.

Therefore, if one agrees that these pistols should be carried with a round in the chamber so they can be fired without having to first cycle the slide, one must find peace with the fact that they will be either partially or fully cocked when the loading operation is completed.

Several hundreds of thousands of these guns are carried this way every day - including every Glock in the holsters of the tens of thousands of LEO's who carry this style of gun. This method of carry is not hazardous - unless the carrier is either so ignorant or careless that he shouldn't be touching serious machinery.

Another way of looking at this is; if the safety between left ear and right is missing, no mechanical device can make that carrier safe.

sjfcontrol wrote:

Heartland Patriot wrote:My Ruger SR-9c is a striker fired pistol similar in function to the Glock and the XD series. The striker (firing pin) is partially cocked (put under tension) by the action of cycling the slide to chamber a round. The trigger being pulled completes the rearward motion of the striker and then releases it after its spring has become fully tensioned...it fires. The cycle of the slide to eject and chamber the next round repeats the process, readying it for the next press of the trigger...however, my Ruger also has a safety that locks the slide. I find some comfort in having a striker fired pistol with a safety (after seeing the Fed shoot himself with the Glock), so that is why a bought the Ruger.

So, if you keep it pointed in a safe direction, and you keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot, and you always treat the gun like it was loaded -- you still need a mechanical safety? The DEA guy did none of that.

Agreed.

That incident was a perfect illustration of the fact that it's impossible to make anything foolproof.

There are two reasons this is true:

1. Fools are so ingenious

2.You can't fix stupid.

chasfm11 wrote:The lastest says

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/24/justice/n ... ?hpt=hp_t1

that there were no direct police hits on the bystanders

Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said the bystanders were not hit directly by police, but rather the officers' struck "flowerpots and other objects around, so ... their bullets fragmented and, in essence, that's what caused the wounds."

Police officers fired a total of 16 rounds; one officer shot nine while another one shot seven, the New York Police Department said.

Hmmmm....

CNN now says that three bystanders were struck by direct fire, and 6 by fragments. (See paragraph 3)

Out of 16 rounds, the report says the bad guy was hit "at least" 3 times.

I'm sure glad I live in Texas where LEO's know how to manage their gunfire.

9 innocents wounded by police gunfire in 1 incident is likely a national record.