Search found 4 matches

by Excaliber
Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:43 am
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Good Argument Against a 6-Shooter
Replies: 107
Views: 14713

Re: Good Argument Against a 6-Shooter

I've enjoyed reading the "my gun choice is bigger / better / faster / meaner than your gun" posts, many of which were clearly written for their amusement value and the certainty that they would provoke more memorable responses. It seems to me that the real question here is how does one choose a defensive carry system wisely?

Here's my take on the subject:

A good choice of a weapon carry system should be a balance of priorities tailored to an individual's likely defensive encounter circumstances, physical abilities, and body build. Here is my personal set of priorities, along with a couple of comments that will likely generate more of the aforementioned memorable responses:

1. Intensive training with the selected weapon to the point of unconscious competence (ability to reliably perform on demand under stress - "PODUS"). This is not negotiable regardless of hardware. You have to be able to reliably place all rounds where they will do the most good in poor light, with and without cover, while moving, in a multiple assailant 360 degree environment. If you're not carrying this, whatever else you've got is unlikely to help much in a seriously bad situation.

2. Adequate caliber for defensive purposes. The point of carrying a defensive weapon is to be able to stop a threat with reasonable reliability. Although it's fun to experiment with various exotic loadings, most folks who have seen a significant number of shootings up close and personal agree on two things, given good bullet placement: Bigger is generally better (.45ACP or .40S&W). (This is a bit controversial in some quarters ;-) ) and a little smaller and lot faster (e.g. 9mm+P+) may work just as well if bullet expansion occurs. This doesn't happen reliably enough to make a lot of folks comfortable, but when it does, the results are quite satisfactory. The.357 magnums from 4" guns have an excellent stopping history, and .38 / .357 / 9mm in +P hollowpoint loadings are pretty good too.

The bottom line is: You would not be poorly armed with any of them.

Although some consider the .380 viable, I see no point to carrying that round when weapons of the same size are readily available in 9mm. Smaller calibers should be reserved for folks who have an overriding need for an extremely tiny carry package, because the ability to stop threats with one or two rounds (the point of this whole exercise) with reasonable reliability in a short enough time to do you any good is poor. Their best use is in deep concealment backup (secondary) guns.

3. Recoil tolerance. This is a combination of cartridge, weapon envelope, and physical stature and abilities. Once you've learned grip, stance, sight alignment, and trigger control to the point where you can keep all shots in a 4" circle at about 7 yards with a light recoiling gun (a .22 is ideal), try various combinations of guns and cartridges to find what works for you. I suggest going to a range that rents a wide variety of guns and starting with big gun / small defensive cartridge (e.g, full size Springfield XD in 9mm, and 4" all steel .38 Spcl) with self defense ammunition. Work up in cartridge (.40 S&W, .45ACP) to your point of tolerance, and then down in size (compact semiautos and 2" revolvers) until you find the smallest package for the largest caliber you can shoot competently. You can rent a lot of guns before you equal the cost of a single purchase decision that you regret.

This is a good place to start your concealed carry system, and it doesn't matter much if your selection process ended up with a revolver or a semiauto. The ability to deliver consistent vital zone hits with the first few shots is much more important than the number of shots available before a reload. Without that ability, more rounds won't help.

4. Complexity. If you're a "learned to shoot on the weekend, loaded the gun, and won't shoot it again for 6 months" person, the revolver will have significant advantages for you because its manual of arms is much simpler than that of the autoloader. If you don't shoot a lot (at least monthly) I suggest you consider that simpler may be better for you. You'll build confidence more easily, there will be fewer things to go wrong, and fewer ways to get into trouble. If you're willing to spend a lot more time learning about weapon function and working on the range, the semiauto will also be a viable choice.

5. Carry Method. If you follow the selection process in step 3, this step consists of selecting a holster system for your chosen weapon. There are lots of very fine carry systems available and the selection extends far beyond what you'll find in even a very well stocked gun shop. Talk to instructors and very experienced CHL holders for recommendations. Posting a request for suggested solutions to a given challenge on this forum will quickly get you lots of excellent responses. Women often find that female instructors have insights that are especially valuable in addressing their individual concerns.

This post certainly won't end the revolver vs. semiauto debate, and it's not intended to be a definitive treatise on how to pick a defensive weapon, but I hope it will refocus some attention on what's really important.
by Excaliber
Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:30 am
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Good Argument Against a 6-Shooter
Replies: 107
Views: 14713

Re: Good Argument Against a 6-Shooter

I think sometimes we can lose focus that the Operator himself or herself is the most important line of defense. Training, intelligence, experience, and more training. If stuff starts to look really really shady, there are certain people on this Forum I'd want by my side...whether they were packin' a revolver or an autoloader wouldn't matter. ;-)
+1, Skiprr.

Buying equipment is easy. Learning how to think your way through and out of a situation and use that equipment effectively is the tough and most important part.

Skiprr, you're welcome on my team anytime.
Not to mention that it's entirely possible they've been shot with a handgun before.
If they're true gangbangers and 18 or older, you can be almost certain they've been shot with a handgun, quite likely on more than one occasion, and they are not unduly impressed by facing another one. They see it as just a temporary tactical problem whose solution is a more vigorous application of ruthless violence. Expect that and you won't be disappointed.
One of the things that works in favor of the good guys is that most criminals are amateur gunmen and aren't exactly the world’s greatest tacticians.
While true enough in some cases, it would be a serious underestimation error to count on that. The guys who have lived through a few junior varsity firefights generally have a basic grasp of the importance of speed, aggressiveness, movement, and cover that goes far beyond the average CHL holder's understanding of these elements. (No offense intended to any individuals, but there's no getting around the fact that people who have survived real life exchanges of gunfire think differently than those who have only engaged flat paper targets that don't shoot back in a well lighted environment, with ear protection, and without multiple folks seriously trying to kill them in a low light 360 degree threat environment on turf the assailants are familiar with and the defender is not. Near death experience changes people.) At the distances you're likely to encounter them at, gangbangers' point shooting skills are plenty deadly. They don't have to hit you with all 16 rounds to get where they want - 3 or 4 will do just fine.

Watching security camera videos of gangbanger shootouts is quite instructive on how they conduct themselves: sudden start of violenced, extensive and rapid movement, high number of rounds fired by point shooting, usually one handed, and very short time frame from first shot to last.
Dude, you need to get out of the suburbs!
Thanks to G.C. Montgomery for providing a first person account of what it's like to live in a neighborhood dominated by demons that those without this experience could otherwise only theorize about. This insight is invaluable for folks who would like to gain a reality based understanding without having to live or work in one of those areas themselves.
by Excaliber
Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:58 pm
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Good Argument Against a 6-Shooter
Replies: 107
Views: 14713

Re: Good Argument Against a 6-Shooter

Show me the rare bad guy that's going to hang around after the first "BANG!" or two to wait and see if you run out of rounds after 5 or 6 shots, or scrutinize the weapon you have to see if he can hold out long enough for you to reload. That only happens on TV. "BANG!" = attention. Attention = witnesses and subsequent police presence. Witnesses = good police reports. Good police reports = eventual arrest of any and all bad guys partaking in said "BANG!". It is in every criminal's best interest to run when a "BANG!" occurs.
(Sigh)

I wish life were that simple.
by Excaliber
Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:42 am
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Good Argument Against a 6-Shooter
Replies: 107
Views: 14713

Re: Good Argument Against a 6-Shooter

double edged knives are illegal for civilians to carry (in Texas)

The U.S. Supreme Court says by implication you can carry a knife, and did not specify in Heller an length or edge limitations. Certainly a knives were commonly owned civilian arms "back in the day." Surely some must have had double edges, further entrenching your right to carry one.
Testing the legal limits of theories on novel interpretations of implied rights that directly contradict clearly established law is best left to those with lots of time and money, and not much that they'll need to be at liberty to take care of for the next 10 years or so.

Texas' 5 1/2 inch blade limit is pretty generous considering many other states set the bar at about half that. There's very little you can't accomplish with a knife that size, short of swordfighting. Most of the knives I prefer to carry for general use and sport don't come close to the limit.

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