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ninemm wrote:

waynev wrote:

ninemm wrote:I don't do much electrical work nowadays but still keep my state Master Electrician license current. But when I did, I never gave much thought to the shoes I wore, so the comment that "electicians wear rubber soled shoes" surprised me. I hardly ever bother to turn a breaker off. Instead, I (and almost every other electrician I know) just intentionally shorts the circuit since you can spend a lot of time determining which breaker controls the circuit you want to work on. Touching something with the back of your hand to test for voltage is not too smart. Just stick an old screwdriver in there (you could ruin a good one if it is hot) and short it out first.

This has got to be the worst advice I've ever seen. DO NOT SHORT THE CIRCUIT!!! Have you ever heard of a Federal Pacific breaker not tripping? If you cannot find the circuit, turn off the main breaker. You are guaranteed to have the power off to the circuit you are working with. Also, be careful with the white wire. Depending on how it 's connected, it may be the "hot" to the switch. If you need any help or advice, PM me.

The failure mode for Federal Pacific breakers is that some fail to trip on overload (125% - 200% of rating). I've run across thousands of them over the years and have never experienced one that fails to open up when the circuit is short-circuited. I know of many instances of people receiving an electric shock after they've supposedly tripped the breaker and used a meter (or touch voltage detector) and "knew" the power was off. Normally, I just work it hot (without gloves) because I know what I'm doing. But there are times when I know I can't work it hot (metal box, crowded box, etc.). You can't trust panel labeling anyway. I know lots of fellow electricians and don't know any who do it any differently than what I have described. Even after I've shorted something out, I still don't just willy-nilly go grabbing bare wires. I still work it like it is hot. Have you ever heard of a shared neutral?

Yeah, I've heard of shared neutrals. They'll bite you just as bad (if not worse) than a hot. Maybe that's why the codebook specifies a common-trip breaker for shared neutrals? The reason I said be careful of the white wire is that many times the homerun is brought to the fixture first, then branches out from there. Since most of the people doing rough-ins are not code experts, they don't color the white wire feeding a switch to a different color like the book tells us to. Instead of shorting the circuit, how aboout using a circuit tracer? Working a circuit hot is not the way I choose to do it, but if you feel comfortable, go for it. There are times that I have no choice, but if I do have a choice, the panel is getting shut down. If I have to work it hot, I'm wearing my gloves. Of course, commercial is different than residential. Companies tend to get angry if you shut down their data center to change a plug or work in the panel. In a residential application, I can't think of any good reason not to kill the panel. I just think it irresponsible to tell somebody that is not an electrician to short a circuit. It's a good way for a novice to electrocute themself.

ninemm wrote:I don't do much electrical work nowadays but still keep my state Master Electrician license current. But when I did, I never gave much thought to the shoes I wore, so the comment that "electicians wear rubber soled shoes" surprised me. I hardly ever bother to turn a breaker off. Instead, I (and almost every other electrician I know) just intentionally shorts the circuit since you can spend a lot of time determining which breaker controls the circuit you want to work on. Touching something with the back of your hand to test for voltage is not too smart. Just stick an old screwdriver in there (you could ruin a good one if it is hot) and short it out first.

This has got to be the worst advice I've ever seen. DO NOT SHORT THE CIRCUIT!!! Have you ever heard of a Federal Pacific breaker not tripping? If you cannot find the circuit, turn off the main breaker. You are guaranteed to have the power off to the circuit you are working with. Also, be careful with the white wire. Depending on how it 's connected, it may be the "hot" to the switch. If you need any help or advice, PM me.