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by Charles L. Cotton
Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:48 am
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: Yet another questionable dog shooting by a LEO?
Replies: 30
Views: 4117

Re: Yet another questionable dog shooting by a LEO?

EEllis wrote:I think that if you have an animal that you have an obligation to make sure it's not a danger to anyone else. If your dog may bite, snap, or in any way be even slightly aggressive then it shouldn't be loose even in your home if someone else is there. If in your yard the yard should be posted no trespass and beware of dog. If you are walking your dog on a leash you must be able to control the dog and have the presence of mind to do so.
While I agree with you concerning a dog owner's responsibility, an owner's failure does not justify an officer overreacting to a potential "bite" as opposed to being mauled or seriously injured. The stats you quoted ("There are about 1200 reported dog bites a year in the city. Houston also had 27 mail carriers bit last year") prove that there is very little threat to anyone, including officers. 1,200 bites in a city of 2 million people is nothing, and 27 mail carriers being bitten is clear proof that being in frequent contact with dogs who appear to be aggressive rarely results in even a bite, much less serious injury. As noted, there's nothing to indicate they are anything more than minor injuries or perhaps no injury at all. Whenever someone is seriously injured or killed by a dog, it's all over the local, state and national news, but those situations are very rare.

As I've said before, I was a COP for 10 years and I hold a Master Certificate from TCLEOSE. I'm not the least bit anti-law enforcement, but I'm rabidly anti-bad COP. They make life harder for every man and woman who wear the badge and do a good job.

Every officer should try to look at such situations from the public's perspective. There not only appears to be a double standard, there most certainly is a double standard. An HPD officer was recently convicted of official oppression, a misdemeanor. He and other officers were caught on video kicking and beating a burglary suspect who had voluntarily laid on the ground before the officers got to him. The convicted officer lied and said he didn't kick the suspect, but a second camera from a different angle proved he kicked him several times. He was given 2 years probation. Last night on Houston's CH.11 TV, there was a news report of a citizen being charged with felony cruelty to animals for mildly striking a puppy. So the public sees a group of offices beating the snot out of a suspect who had surrendered and it results in a misdemeanor conviction and 2 years probation. Then the public sees a man striking a dog (not a human, a dog) causing absolutely no injury and he's facing a felony charge.

Combine these factors with the ever-increasing militarization of law enforcement and it should be no surprise to anyone that the public's perception of law enforcement is changing and not for the better. When I was a COP, community policing was the norm, COPS were friendly and well received by the public, and bullies-with-a-badge were quickly weeded out. Sadly, this has changed and too many officers and even some agencies don't want merely to be respected, they want to be feared. This will cost them dearly in terms of public support, as well it should.

I want to change the subject slightly. We have a rule against blatant LEO bashing. We don't have a rule against supporting COPS even when they are wrong. People who are in the "COPS are always right" group are just as biased and irritating as those who are in the "COPS are always wrong" group. Supporting LEOs who act inappropriately, unconstitutionally, or unlawfully only serves to hurt law enforcement in general. I'm not saying you (EEllis) fall in either group; I'm just making an observation.

[/rant]

Chas.
by Charles L. Cotton
Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:28 pm
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: Yet another questionable dog shooting by a LEO?
Replies: 30
Views: 4117

Re: Yet another questionable dog shooting by a LEO?

texanjoker wrote:
VMI77 wrote:On the face of it, if you accept the account of the officer, it seems justified. However, it's getting harder and harder to believe police accounts of their behavior, as they get caught lying over and over again again, though usually only when it turns out someone had a recording device they didn't know about. Without some kind of evidence it's impossible to determine if the cop in this instance was in the wrong.

The 12 year old is emotionally involved, and people, including adults, sometimes minimize the bad behavior of their dogs. OTOH, I've also been surprised by people who have dogs, and you'd think would be dog lovers, who have no patience or tolerance for anyone else's dog. But then again, OTOH, it sure seems like this officer was pretty quick to pull the trigger. My wife and I were walking our 150 lb Great Dane one evening when two dogs literally jumped through the screen covering an open 2nd story window and rushed our dog. Somehow, as I tried to get my Great Dane under control, my little 5'4" wife managed to pull off the other two dogs and keep them separated while I got our dog away to defuse the situation --and all without shooting any dogs or sustaining any injuries (and they weren't tiny dogs either....but about pitbull size, though I don't know what the breed was). It sure seems like a lot of police officers are irrationally afraid of dogs, since virtually all these shootings are by police officers --not letter carriers, UPS drivers, meter readers, and salesmen.
True, but letter carriers, UPS drivers, meter readers and salesman do not carry guns and are not trained to stop a threat
Yes they are and they do so without killing the dogs. ....
texanjoker wrote:mail carriers get bit all the time.
No they don't.

Chas.
by Charles L. Cotton
Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:27 pm
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: Yet another questionable dog shooting by a LEO?
Replies: 30
Views: 4117

Re: Yet another questionable dog shooting by a LEO?

texanjoker wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
VMI77 wrote:. . . since virtually all these shootings are by police officers --not letter carriers, UPS drivers, meter readers, and salesmen.
This is an issue I've wondered about for a while. All of the people you listed come in contact with far more dogs than do LEOs, but we don't see or hear a lot of reports of them being mauled. Apparently, as others with extensive experience with dogs/training have indicated, the likelihood of being seriously injured (perhaps injured at all) is very low or we would see more reports.

Chas.
I disagree. When I worked regular LE work we responded to those dog bites and took reports. They just don't make the paper. I have a friend and she has been bit many times working postal work. She gets a nice payday each time.
I was a city police officer for 10 years and never once got a dog bite call.

Chas.
by Charles L. Cotton
Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:25 am
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: Yet another questionable dog shooting by a LEO?
Replies: 30
Views: 4117

Re: Yet another questionable dog shooting by a LEO?

VMI77 wrote:. . . since virtually all these shootings are by police officers --not letter carriers, UPS drivers, meter readers, and salesmen.
This is an issue I've wondered about for a while. All of the people you listed come in contact with far more dogs than do LEOs, but we don't see or hear a lot of reports of them being mauled. Apparently, as others with extensive experience with dogs/training have indicated, the likelihood of being seriously injured (perhaps injured at all) is very low or we would see more reports.

Chas.

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