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by Charles L. Cotton
Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:50 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Retail Theft question
Replies: 70
Views: 10199

Re: Retail Theft question

anygunanywhere wrote:"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
What if the presumption is wrong and the woman isn't a loss prevention officer and the man was the victim of an assault? What if she was a loss prevention officer, but she was using excessive force? What if you hurt the male assault victim because your assumption was wrong? What if the male assault victim was willing to defend himself with hands alone, until you joined the assault and you got shot?

In every one of my CHL classes, I point out that when we decide to defend an unknown 3rd person, we are risking that our presumptions are incorrect. Unless you know the people involved AND you saw the events unfold from the beginning, you cannot be sure you know the facts. Well meaning intervention into events can result in innocent people getting hurt or killed, a guilty person escaping, or the rescuer getting injured or killed.

Try to put yourself in the position of an innocent person incorrectly believed to be an attacker. They are already being assaulted and you join with his attacker. If I'm the victim, . . . well it won't go well for either of my attackers, including the would-be rescuer.

There certainly are incidents involving innocent 3rd persons that clearly warrant a rescuer to get involved, including the use of deadly force. However, not all incidents are so clear and the one described was not.

Chas.
by Charles L. Cotton
Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:07 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Retail Theft question
Replies: 70
Views: 10199

Re: Retail Theft question

I want to avoid any confusion my post may create. My reference to Tex. Code Crim. Procedure §14.01 does not conflict with Steve's reference to Tex. Penal Code §9.51. I was addressing when a citizen can make an arrest while Steve was addressing the use of force to effect such an arrest.

I hope my post didn't confuse the issue.

Chas.
by Charles L. Cotton
Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:00 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Retail Theft question
Replies: 70
Views: 10199

Re: Retail Theft question

Helping a store employee who requested assistance is not the same as helping a peace officer. Your friend was helping a citizen make a citizen's arrest for something that could well have been a misdemeanor. Citizens can only make a citizen's arrest for a felony or an offense against the public peace. Tex. Code Crim. Proc. §14.01. Since the loss control employee started the encounter, your friend was on very thin ice.

Chas.

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