TexasCHLforum.com

SlickTX wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

SlickTX wrote:But its harder to argue under PC 46.03. I think this language is a bit broad. I've seen the highschool cross-country team running in a long line down the streets and sidewalks around our neighborhood. Is it really the intent of the legislature to say weapons are now not allowed in my neighborhood because of a definition that includes any activity sponsored by a school?

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits
an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses
or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon
listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,
any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation
vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or
educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written
regulations or written authorization of the institution;

There is no case law on point.

That said, I believe it is clear that the activity grounds must be school property. You cannot read any part of a statute out of context and the phrase "any grounds or building on which . . ." appears in a sentence that clearly refers to school property. Further evidence is the provision that allows a school to authorize the carrying of firearms in such places and schools would have such authority only on property it owns.

Chas.

I don't mean to quibble, but by that logic you would not be able to carry in the school bus or school owned car only while it was parked on the school property. Correct? If the first phrase colors the reading of the second phrase, should it not also color the third phrase?.

It does color the portion that deals with school buses, but only as it relates to ownership, not location. A school bus that is owned or leased by a school is off-limits regardless where it is located. So too with "activity grounds" that are owned by a school (and on which a school sponsored activity is ongoing) even though they may not be located on or adjacent to the schools' campus. For example, many Texas schools own FFA "ag barns" that are located off campus. Those facilities are off-limits because they are owned by the school, even though they are not on campus. (This presumes a school sponsored event [i.e. taking care of animals] is ongoing.)

So it is ownership/control (fee simple or leased) that controls, not location.

Chas.

terryg wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:That said, I believe it is clear that the activity grounds must be school property. You cannot read any part of a statute out of context and the phrase "any grounds or building on which . . ." appears in a sentence that clearly refers to school property. Further evidence is the provision that allows a school to authorize the carrying of firearms in such places and schools would have such authority only on property it owns.
Chas.

Wow, I'm sorta-of surprised by that Mr. Cotton. That is not how I read that at all. I am not a lawyer and a lot of the PC text is confusing to me - so I will defer to your wisdom in the end.

But I wonder about something like this:

You are a chaperone at a HS prom that is occurring in a rented, non-posted hotel convention space. By your interpretation, you could be armed at that prom. Correct? Or am I missing something?

As I said, there is no case law on point, all you have here is "Cotton on the law" and that's not going to carry any weight in court.

In your prom example held off-campus it is less clear because the school would have a contract with the property owner for this event. This gives some level of control to the school and this could well be enough to extend TPC §46.03 to the prom. I believe it does.

This analysis would also apply to temporary buildings rented by a school or school district to use for classes. (The so-called "temporary buildings" there were plentiful when I was in school 100 years ago.) TPC §46.03 renders off-limits only a "building or a portion of building" not the real estate. If rented temporary classrooms under the control of the school were not covered by TPC §46.03 simply because they were not owned by the school, then CHL's could carry in those buildings, but not the brick buildings. This clearly was not the intent of the legislature and I believe the rental/lease contract giving the school control over those building will trigger the provisions of TPC §46.03. For the same reason, I believe the H.S. prom will also be off-limits.

Chas.

SlickTX wrote:But its harder to argue under PC 46.03. I think this language is a bit broad. I've seen the highschool cross-country team running in a long line down the streets and sidewalks around our neighborhood. Is it really the intent of the legislature to say weapons are now not allowed in my neighborhood because of a definition that includes any activity sponsored by a school?

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits
an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses
or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon
listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,
any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation
vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or
educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written
regulations or written authorization of the institution;

There is no case law on point.

That said, I believe it is clear that the activity grounds must be school property. You cannot read any part of a statute out of context and the phrase "any grounds or building on which . . ." appears in a sentence that clearly refers to school property. Further evidence is the provision that allows a school to authorize the carrying of firearms in such places and schools would have such authority only on property it owns.

Chas.