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dawgfishboy wrote:Noriega also refused to directly answer the question about handgun/assault rifle control last night too.

KBCraig wrote:Charles, no matter how you try to dress it up, what you're saying is that past ratings tell you nothing about what a politician might actually do in office.

I'm not dressing up anything. You erroneously said Noriega had an "A" rating and I corrected that statement.

KBCraig wrote:So, why all the fuss about whether a questionnaire is returned?

Firstly, Noriega not only refused to answer the Questionnaire, he gave his reasons. Further, history indicates that people who refuse to return an NRA Questionnaire tend to vote against us on our issues. This is especially true when 1) the candidate has no voting record; 2) the person is running for office in a new venue (city level to state level; state to federal); or 3) when a leadership change brings an anti-gunner into office. Many state and federal congressmen and senators have policies against answering any organizations' questionnaires, but they answer the NRA's. Why, because they are so important. Never before has Noriega refused to answer the Questionnaire and he has a reason for doing so now.

KBCraig wrote:I guess what I'm really looking for here is the true reason for knocking Noriega despite his record: he's a Democrat, and there are non-gun issues involved.

I have given the "true" reasons why I don't trust Noriega; you just don't accept the explanation. We have very pro-gun Democrats like Juan "Chuy" Hinojosa and many others with A or A+ ratings on the TSRA Voters Guide. I don't oppose him simply because he's a Democrat. I don't trust him because his actions as a candidate for the United States Senate are inconsistent with his prior actions as a member of the Texas House of Representatives. As the old saying goes, "those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." I vividly remember Congressman Green's betrayal and I don't want to see it happen again in the United States Senate -- the body that will vote on Supreme Court nominees and UN Treaties.

Chas.

KBCraig wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

KBCraig wrote:Especially since the challenger has an NRA "A" rating.

Kevin, are you referring to Rick Noriega? If so, he doesn't have an "A" rating, he refused to return an NRA questionnaire.

As noted above, which prompted you to apologize for calling Noriega anti-gun:
2006: A
2004: A
2002: A
2000: B
1998: B

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Remember, U.S. Representative Gene Green was an "A+" when he was in the Texas Legislature and he even carried a CHL bill in the late '80s or early '90s, if I remember correctly. But when he was elected to the U.S. Congress, he voted with his anti-gun Democrats and quickly earned a "C" rating.

KBCraig wrote:If past ratings are not indicative of future performance, then the NRA ratings are utterly useless.

I don't think that's the case, but I'm surprised to see an NRA BoD member taking that stance.

We weren't talking about past ratings, you said Noriega had an "A" rating and he does not. His rating is "?"

He refused to answer the NRA Questionnaire because his answers would have hurt him with pro-gun voters. It's interesting that his campaign office is telling callers that he does not have a rating with the NRA, but he has a current "A" rating with TSRA. That is false.

Past ratings are indicative of future performance when the candidate's voting record matches his rating and when he does not refuse to take a position on NRA issues. Such refusal is even more worrisome when a state-level candidate runs for an office at the federal level. (Rep. Gene Green's voting history in Texas and as a U.S. Congressman is an example.) As a State Representative, Rick Noriega never failed to turn in a Questionnaire, but now that he's running for national office, he refuses to answer it. He knows full well how important the Questionnaires are and he understands the significance of a "?" rating. Knowing these things, he still refused to turn in a Questionnaire, even when given extra time to do so. That is a change and it calls his future loyalty to gun owners into question.

Chas.

KBCraig wrote:

dawgfishboy wrote:

KD5NRH wrote:Well, I think it's safe to say that, after their bailout votes, neither Hutchison nor Cornyn is going to have an easy time getting my vote for anything.

+2
(including the Mrs.)

Especially since the challenger has an NRA "A" rating.

Kevin, are you referring to Rick Noriega? If so, he doesn't have an "A" rating, he refused to return an NRA questionnaire. This is worrisome since some of the issues on the federal level are different from what are issues in Texas. He he raised his rating from "B" to "A" in Texas and he always voted with us in recent years. But one must wonder why he refused to state his position now, especially when the Obama/Biden tickets combines two anti-gun candidates.

Remember, U.S. Representative Gene Green was an "A+" when he was in the Texas Legislature and he even carried a CHL bill in the late '80s or early '90s, if I remember correctly. But when he was elected to the U.S. Congress, he voted with his anti-gun Democrats and quickly earned a "C" rating. He has since regained his "A" rating, but that was at a time when the Republicans controlled the House, not when the gun control crowd was in power. I'm not saying Noriega will follow suit, but refusing to take a position on the issues important to gun owners, by not answering the NRA Questionnaire, is not a good sign. To many, including me, a rating of "?" is an "F" in the making. That doesn't always prove to be the case, but it's relatively rare for a "?" to turn out to be good for gun owners.

Chas.

nitrogen wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Then welcome Senator Rick "I hate guns" Noriega to Washington.

I'd be interested to see documentation on this, as I have not been able to find ANY information on his gun control stance.
Also, I don't see the Brady Campaign or their ilk supporting him.

I owe Rep. Noriega and everyone an apology; I had my people confused. Noriega is running for the U.S. Senate and I guess I had "senate" on my mind, forgetting the Rick Noriega was a Representative not a Texas Senator. I was thinking of Texas Senator Mario Gallegos, not Texas Representative Rick Noriega. This coupled with Noriega's refusal to answer the NRA Questionnaire, thus earning a "?" rating, and I popped off with the "I hate guns" comment. I should have checked his record better.

Even though this thread is in the "off-topic" section and deals with the bailout not guns, I'm not going to get into other non-gun issues. But if people are considering voting for Rick Noriega because of the bailout vote, look at his record on other conservative issues. Since this thread is about money, look at his record on "Budget, Spending and Taxes." Just go to the website nitrogen cited: http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_c ... n_id=25374" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Go here to look at his actual voting record! http://www.votesmart.org/voting_categor ... n_id=25374" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Again, I apologize for my comment that was harsher than warranted.

Chas.

Then welcome Senator Rick "I hate guns" Noriega to Washington. I'm not a single issue voter either, but a candidate's position on guns is a litmus test. If they are wrong on that issue, then they oppose my ability to protect myself and my family and that's unacceptable, even if I agree with every other thing they support or oppose. If I have two pro-gun candidates running, then I get to look at other issues when deciding how to vote. Likewise, if I have two anti-gun candidates (never happened to me), then I make my decision on other issues. But when one candidate supports my right and ability to defend myself and my family and one does not, then the issue is settled at that point.

I too hate the bailout, but my safety comes first, then my money.

Chas.

Liberty wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote: There is an old saying within NRA and TSRA; we don't abandon old friends for new ones. Senator Hutchison would probably be very good on our issue, but I won't abandon a proven friend for anyone.

Chas.

Does this mean that the NRA would be less than honest about her rating? Or would they just pretend she wasn't running when it came to publishing her ratings.

The NRA and TSRA ratings would be accurate and based upon voting records for Senator Hutchison and on Governor Perry's stance on guns as Governor. This includes the pro-gun bills he signed, at least one of which was politically difficult not to veto. It also includes his public pro-gun statements such as the statement that CHLs should be able to carry anywhere in the State. We also consider the many times he had appeared at TSRA events and his appearance and speech at the NRA Annual Meeting in Houston. He is a man who didn't merely pay lip-service to supporting gun owners by turning in a good Questionnaire, he put the prestige of his office on our side with numerous public statements and public appearances at TSRA and NRA events.

We don't massage the ratings for very good reasons. First, our credibility would be destroyed and secondly, the opponent may win and we don't want an enemy.

A great example of this policy in action is State Senator Bob Deuell. He ran against a pro-gun incumbent with a good record. Deuell turned in an "A" Questionnaire and obviously would have liked our endorsement, or at least that we remain neutral. We couldn't do that. However, since he won and has proven himself to be as pro-gun as his Questionnaire indicated, and has carried bills for us, he is now our "friend." We wouldn't abandon him for a new friend and it wouldn't matter if I ran against him, I wouldn't get the endorsement and he would. To do otherwise destroy our effectiveness in Austin.

Chas.

This thread is going to get busy!! That's fine, I hope it does.

I will support Governor Perry against any challenger, regardless who it is. He has done more for gun owners than any Governor we've ever had. I don't like everything he's done, but I'm not so naive as to believe I would agree with everything any elected official would do in office.

There is an old saying within NRA and TSRA; we don't abandon old friends for new ones. Senator Hutchison would probably be very good on our issue, but I won't abandon a proven friend for anyone.

Chas.