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SickSilverado wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:35 pm Not sure if it was mentioned in here already. I believe walmart's policy was to request to see a CHL/CCW license if caught carrying. If you can't produce a license, they ask you to leave and return without the gun. If you don't leave, I believe they then consider you trespassing.

If it’s their policy, they’re sure not enforcing it. I have OC'd into a Walmart once, and nobody said boo about it. Then there’s the 5 million times I’ve carried into a Walmart and nobody knew, because it was concealed.

treadlightly wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:07 pm What should remain obvious to the world is what's plain to see from the perspective of the lawfully armed citizen.

........

Nurture the armed citizen, nurture freedom. There's a reason the police didn't seem to mind handing a gun to that fellow.

I realize I don't know the full situation, too.

And that is a VERY good point that none of us has pointed out until now.

DEB wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:50 pm I think many of us gun carriers are our worst enemies. Go open carrying within a store, drink a soda you haven't paid for and start questioning the store's practices, by making a nuisance of one's self. Offer to pay for the soda you filched as well as the goods you have in your cart all the while filming your interaction with the store and Law Enforcement. I don't know, not really the ambassador for good will there, I might opinion. Have a highly publicized active shooting in a Walmart in El Paso and just looking to keep poking the bear and then complain? Just like that boy in Missouri. I know no Laws were broken, except for maybe that soda he pilfered, same as the boy who put on a vest and carried that AR 15 at the low ready. I ain't sayin keep quite and don't fight back, but why poke the bear? In good old California one could open carry as long as one didn't have a bullet in the pipe. Next thing you know, here comes the internet and everyone is filming them arguing with the Police, now California is one step from Venezuela. Just sayin...

I agree that the guy who carried an AR and an open carried pistol while wearing a plate carrier with a bunch of spare AR mags in it into a Walmart just days after the El Paso shooting is a MORON. It was completely socially tone deaf, and makes me wonder if the dude isn’t autistic. I don’t blame the retired firefighter who stuck a gun in his ear for doing what he did. It may well have been that the "gunman" meant no harm, but it didn’t LOOK that way.

That said, and absent any video record or other information saying otherwise, that wasn’t THIS dude's case. The guy in this video was dressed in "redneck casual" (not a real problem....it’s how I dress a lot of the time), but he had his gun in a cheap holster, not very securely clipped to the waist of his pants without the support of even a cheap belt. This isn’t a legal definition, but let’s just say that it was "unprofessional" looking—for lack of a better term. I wonder if the outcome would have been different if he had his gun in a better holster, actually anchored to a belt, and if he’d just kept his mouth shut and not tried to "educate" the store manager—which too often probably comes off as an obnoxious superiority attitude.

We'll never know, but it makes for some interesting speculation. All I know is that if I keep a low profile, stay out of other people's way who are trying to do their jobs, and carry my weapon like I actually have my act together, it’s probably going to draw less attention with less of a chance of getting trespassed out of a place that is useful to me once in a while.

Even so, the cops were out of line by forcing him to sign a Walmart generated form. I’d have refused.

03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:29 am

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:33 am

flechero wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:14 am

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:44 am and made to sign a trespass form

Could be easily challenged and thrown out... as he was made to sign it under duress. Of course he may not care after being treated that way.

Too much info missing for me to get ruffled yet, however, the gun case being unlocked and unattended is something a manager should be concerned about. (regardless of how it;s reported to him)

When I posted this story, I wasn’t as outraged as the person who tweeted the story in the first place.... but I was a little bit outraged. My opinion was that it was way over the line for an individual store manager (who may be only 1 of 2 or 3 for that store alone) to trespass the subject from ALL Walmart stores for LIFE, and it was unlawful for the police to make a private citizen sign a corporate document.

I think I would have refused to sign the form, and made the police trespass me out of that one store, since their jurisdiction is limited. I don’t see how they could arrest me for refusing to sign a Walmart generated form, which can apply to all stores. I don’t see how a "disorderly conduct" or similar charge could be made to stick for refusing to sign a private corporation's form. Walmart is not the law, and I’m pretty sure that a court would agree. I think that, when the officer tried to hand me my gun back, I would have said, "Here’s what we're gonna do. You hang onto that for a minute so that you all will feel safer about things, and we're going to all walk out of the store together. You can detain me in cuffs while walking out it makes you feel better. Then, once we're outside, you can cite me, or trespass me using one of your forms. Then, if you can’t find a reason to actually arrest me, you can uncuff me, return my firearm, and I’ll leave peacefully. But I am NOT going to sign a form produced by a non-law enforcement entity—which is well within my rights to refuse to do—and you can't MAKE me put my signature to a document that isn’t gov’t generated. Shall we walk?"

I think many times those forms are signed under threat of "pressing charges" such as in a shop lifting case. Like you, I am wondering exactly what charges they threatened to file on this guy.

How are they going to do that, if he had no merchandise hidden about his person AND he’s on both police body cam video and whoever recorded the encounter on his cellphone, asking if he can at least pay for what’s in his cart before being ejected from the store? A DA would have to be a microcephalic functional illiterate to take such a case given the video record. I don’t know what the law is in Missouri, but I suppose that under Texas law, an LEO could give him a hard time for not having the gun in a belt or shoulder holster.....assuming that Texas law requires a belt to be present for a belt holster when open carrying.

They could threaten me with that if they wanted to, which would earn them a well deserved laugh. The person with the cellphone would document any effort to plant false evidence. Besides that, I don’t think most LEOs would be that corrupt. If you refused o sin the form, the worse they could do wold be to arrest you for disturbing the peace—a charge that would be dropped by the DA as soon as he saw the video record, maybe even with an apology.

flechero wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:14 am

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:44 am and made to sign a trespass form

Could be easily challenged and thrown out... as he was made to sign it under duress. Of course he may not care after being treated that way.

Too much info missing for me to get ruffled yet, however, the gun case being unlocked and unattended is something a manager should be concerned about. (regardless of how it;s reported to him)

When I posted this story, I wasn’t as outraged as the person who tweeted the story in the first place.... but I was a little bit outraged. My opinion was that it was way over the line for an individual store manager (who may be only 1 of 2 or 3 for that store alone) to trespass the subject from ALL Walmart stores for LIFE, and it was unlawful for the police to make a private citizen sign a corporate document.

I think I would have refused to sign the form, and made the police trespass me out of that one store, since their jurisdiction is limited. I don’t see how they could arrest me for refusing to sign a Walmart generated form, which can apply to all stores. I don’t see how a "disorderly conduct" or similar charge could be made to stick for refusing to sign a private corporation's form. Walmart is not the law, and I’m pretty sure that a court would agree. I think that, when the officer tried to hand me my gun back, I would have said, "Here’s what we're gonna do. You hang onto that for a minute so that you all will feel safer about things, and we're going to all walk out of the store together. You can detain me in cuffs while walking out it makes you feel better. Then, once we're outside, you can cite me, or trespass me using one of your forms. Then, if you can’t find a reason to actually arrest me, you can uncuff me, return my firearm, and I’ll leave peacefully. But I am NOT going to sign a form produced by a non-law enforcement entity—which is well within my rights to refuse to do—and you can't MAKE me put my signature to a document that isn’t gov’t generated. Shall we walk?"

Dude wasn’t all tacticooled up. He had a legally holstered handgun OC'd on his hip, while buying plumbing supplies in a Walmart. His sin was having called the manager's attention to the fact that the store's gun counter was left unattended and unsecured. Police are called. He is told that he’s being trespassed by the manager, and made to sign a trespass form that bans him from all Walmarts nationally. He even asked if he could at least pay for what was in his cart, plus his unfinished drink, on the way out. The answer was no, get out now.