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ScottDLS wrote:I like the Taco Cabana approach. I am still somewhat insulted by 30.07 signs as I view them as a dress code enforced by the police power of the State, unlike (presumably) other dress codes.

Yeah, 30.07 has that aspect to it, and I would rather have had my church take a more low-key approach, but the congregation is made up of all kinds of people - not all of whom are that gun-oriented - and I'm pretty sure that the leadership didn't want to invest the time and energy to approach every person who open carried into the church and tell them to either cover it up or take it outside. We have had an average weekly attendance of well over 1,500......probably closer to 2,000 by now (we had to build a larger building which we just moved into). Our worship center seats 850 people, and both of the Sunday morning services are full to capacity, plus there's a 5:00 pm service on Sunday. Anyway, I won't let 30.07 stop me from patronizing a business. Their house, their rules. But I read a 30.06 sign to mean "Your money not good here".......so I don't burden them with my money.

canvasbck wrote:

Soccerdad1995 wrote:My thoughts are starting to evolve on signs like this one.

When OC first passed, I was really offended by the actions of a few large chains, Whataburger being one of them, who immediately stated that they would ban OC. They made these announcements as much as 6 months in advance, with no evidence whatsoever that OC would cause any issues at all for their restaurants. I felt like they were making a political statement as opposed to a business decision. And I would rather that the people selling me food, and for that matter entertainment, just stick with what they know best and not lecture me about their political beliefs.

But I am starting to realize that these businesses are in a tough position because there are a lot of small minded people out there who have been indoctrinated to truly fear guns. The mere sight of a gun will cause these folks to go into a mini-panic. Obviously it would be best for all of us if we could get these poor unfortunate souls to understand that an inanimate object is not going to hurt them. But am I starting to think that it may be a bit hypocritical of me to expect business owners to take up this effort given what I wrote in the above paragraph. As much as I would love to see all business owners allow, and even encourage, every LTC holder to openly carry firearms, I do understand that they must make a profit and it is reasonable for them to strike some type of a balance.

I do strongly prefer that businesses post courteous signs as opposed to valid 30.07 notices. If a customer OC's past a sign such as the one in the picture above, an employee can then just politely let them know that they need to untuck their shirt, giving them verbal (oral?) notice. The 30.07 wording with it's reference to OC in a criminal context has the unintended consequence of reinforcing the notion for some folks that carrying guns is bad, IMHO.

My feelings on 30.06 are much, much different. By posting a 30.06 sign, a business owner is restricting my ability to exercise fundamental human and civil rights on their property. They have the legal right to do this, but simple decency should dictate that such a restriction is only considered as a last resort to solve a compelling and significant issue. I don't think that any such issue exists related to the carrying of a concealed handgun by a LTC holder.

There is a local restaurant that we frequent following out matches. I generally do not carry when I go there, because I'm planning on having an adult beverage while there.

One Saturday, we decided to go to said restaurant for lunch after IDPA. I had on my OC rig, I wasn't planning on having a beverage so I left it on. Our regular waitress came over to me and very discretely said "would you mind covering that up, we don't allow open carry". There are no signs posted. I told her "sure" and untucked and covered (poorly, as I was wearing my "go fast shirt" so printing was really obvious). I have absolutely no problem with a business that has made a decision like this one. As a matter of fact, if I go to that establishment now, I make sure that I am set up to conceal in a manner that is truly concealed out of respect for their wishes.They are not stopping me from carrying and respect my right to protect myself. I should also respect their wishes to have a certain atmosphere in their restaurant that does not include openly displayed firearms.

This is why I've always maintained that 30.07 is more of a dress code restriction than a rights restriction. I will NOT frequent ANY 30.06 establishment for ANY reason. If there is no locally unposted establishment selling what I want, then I will order it online from some outlet that does NOT restrict my carry rights. For instance, I have a Walmart supercenter near my home, so I don't have to worry about this, but if, for instance Sears posted 30.06 signs, I know that Walmart does not, and so even if there wasn't a Walmart near my home, I could order online from them......so Sears doesn't get my online business either.

My church is posted 30.07, for what I would call spiritually sound reasons having nothing to do with biblical prohibitions, and everything to do with wanting to be welcoming to ALL people, including those who are seeking but maybe not yet believing, and who may be coming from all different kinds of walks of life. On the day that we stop welcoming people just because their politics or social standards are different than our own, then we have lost sight of both Jesus AND his mission for us to be fishers of men. In other words, it is a socially motivated spiritual decision, and not a politically motivated decision. Contrasted against that, my church's leadership seems to be very supportive of the RKBA, and are comfortable with people such as myself who are carrying in church......including my carrying on stage as part of the worship team. In other words, it is a dress code restriction and not a political statement. We have other dress code restrictions too......like we expect people to not wear blatantly revealing clothing. On stage, our worship team members are discouraged from wearing clothing that will draw the congregation's eyes onto what we are wearing, rather than being focused on the worship.

I only open carry about half the time anyway, even if OC isn't going to be an issue. The main thing for me is, OC isn't about making a statement, it is about MY convenience, and nobody else's, and sometimes it is more convenient for ME to cover up than not......as hard as that might be for some people to believe. I don't have a need to look like Tom Mix, or to look like an oper8or oper8ing oper8tionally. I'm just a bearded guy in his mid sixties, overweight and gimpy, who wouldn't particularly stand out in a crowd, and who happens to have a utilitarian gun strapped on in a utilitarian holster. I don't need the trappings of a gunslinger to define myself to anyone. If it is convenient for me to cover up to go inside, I will. If not, I'll go somewhere else. If I know in advance that the place I'm going to is posted 30.07 (like my church, for instance), and I still want to go there (like my church, for instance), then I will dress accordingly just like adults all over the world do.........and quit whining about it.