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2big2fail wrote:

Millionhorns wrote:Alright, So, newbie here. Just got my license and have some ammo questions.

Lord forbid that I ever have to open fire, but if I ever have to could the choice of ammunition be used against me, legally? For instance, I just purchased some Gold Dot 124 +p 9mm, would I be better, Legally, by not having +P? If I were carrying 'normal' ammo, could my legal team make the argument that I was not trying to 'kill'? I feel that if I carry +p that the person I shots' legal team could say bad things about me carrying +P. Should this be a concern?

Also, What is the exact definition and purpose of a +P round? It's just more powerful, right?

Any help for this newbie would be greatly appreciated :)


Merry Christmas!

Hello all, just browsing the interwebs and stumbled across this thread. Thought I might drop off my .02 on the topic.
Sounds like the concern here is - what are the legalities of using +P and facing a DA hailstorm about intent to inflict "maximum damage" in a defensive use of a firearm.
Well, your weapon could be a .45! right? That hits with nearly 2X the energy of a 9mm. It seems that the universal language is - if you are to draw a weapon in self defense, it has already been established that you are facing a threat where you fear your life is in danger. At this point, to protect your life, one would be justified whatever they use (9mm with +P, .40, .45, 460S&W, 12 ga, bat, or even a samauri sword), right? The way I see it, if you use your weapon, the point is to eliminate the threat. Load your personal defensive weapon accordingly. If it wasn't life threatening, you wouldn't have to use it at all.

Good day, and God bless.

Actually, that part is not correct. .45 ACP, 9mm, and .40 S&W are so close together in terminal performance that it is possible to find a commercially available load in any one of them that will, on average, exceed the capabilities of the other two. The primary difference is the size of the hole, and even that turns out to be a difference of small fractions of an inch assuming the bullet expands reliably. I've helped to treat hundreds of gunshot patients over a 6 year period, and pretty much anything more powerful than a .380 makes about the same size hole going in. The difference is what happens inside, depth of penetration, what internal structures were hit, and the size of the exit hole.....if there is one. Most don't exit.

I went to http://www.federalpremium.com/ and compared the following three representative loads in 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP for velocity, energy, and trajectory. They were, in order, the following loads:

1. 9mm 124 grain Hydra-Shok JHP
2. .40 S&W 155 grain Hydra-Shok JHP
3. .45 Auto 230 grain Hydra-Shock JHP

Here are screen shots from their website:
At no point does the .45 ACP hit twice as hard as a 9mm......if you compare apples to apples. Now, maybe a +P+ .45 fired out of a carbine length barrel might hit twice as hard 50 yards downrange as a standard pressure 9mm fired from a 4" handgun barrel, but that is not a valid comparison. But even if it were a valid comparison, hitting the thigh twice as hard as you hit the heart is meaningless. Shot placement is still king. I occasionally carry a 9mm, and sometimes a .357, but my regular daily carry guns are all .45s...........not because I think they hit harder, but because the fully opened diameter of an expanded .45 is marginally bigger than the fully opened diameter of an expanded 9mm, and I might still snag that vital structure with a passing .45 bullet that a 9mm might miss, and if the goal is to stop your attacker by disabling him, then hitting a vital structure is pretty much mandatory. But even while shot placement is king, I know me, and I know that shooting under pressure can vastly affect that—so anything I can do to up the odds in my favor is a plus. But I don't think of the "mighty .45" as King Kong to the 9mm's Tiny Tim. You're equally well armed with either one, or with the .40.........and I don't see anybody volunteering to step in front of either of the three calibers.

Cobaltblue wrote:New to CHL and this forum. I have recently purcchased a SCCY CPX-2 for CCW and the manual states NOT to use +P. Can someone give me an idea why this would be?

Generally speaking, if the barrel is not stamped with +P, or if it does not explicitly state it in the owner's manual, then do NOT shoot +P ammo in your gun.

GWE Chally wrote:+P means "plus pressure". In addition to the above stated over penetration issue, the round is faster. The extra pressure means the round travels faster, which means that it is not affected by gravity and wind as quickly after leaving your barrel. This extra speed ultimately means that the round is more accurate in a self defense situation where you don't have time to correct for wind and drop.

This too. I meant to mention accuracy, but I have halfheimers.

A good rule of thumb, although not the ONLY rule of thumb, is to carry whatever ammo your local police department uses. Many police agencies insist on +P ammo. There is no legal liability for choosing +P ammunition, which expands more reliably and it could therefore be argued it is less likely to overpenetrate.

Don't worry about it.