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C-dub wrote: ↑Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:01 pm A bad dog is a bad dog. Some pits are bad. Many are good. Many dogs of any breed are bad. With the amount of poor breeding that goes into many pits or any breed I am amazed there are not more problems.

Poor breeding? American Pit Bull Terriers were originally bred to compete in blood sports: bull baiting, bear baiting, and dog fighting. People wanted a dog that was as powerful as a bulldog but with the tenacity and killer instinct of a terrier.

chasfm11 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:52 pm I doubt if killing the dog would have made any difference in the outcome. The damage that has been done was done by the time I could safely shoot arrived. I say "safely" because I would not put my own dog in jeopardy with my gun. Shooting the dog might have landed me in jail. That would definitely not have helped the situation. The animal control person pretty much told me that I have no rights in the matter.

That animal control person is pretty clueless. Texas laws are very friendly to citizens that feel compelled to use force to protect property. Regardless, your dogs life and well being as well as your own life and well being are worth way more than the punishment you would receive if you were in the wrong for shooting a charging pit bull.

chasfm11 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:04 pm Why can't irresponsible people get chihuahuas? The animal control person said that chihauuas are a lot more aggressive than pits - and I believe that - but they are not capable of inflicting the kind of damage that pits can. She also tried to sell me than many other breeds can do a lot more damage in a full on attack - like a German Shepard. That might be true but Shepards have a lot more predictable behavior than pits do, IMHO.

Actually, I'd argue that Chihuahua owners tend to be some of the most irresponsible of all dog owners. The thing is, the consequences for being irresponsible with a Chihuahua are not nearly as great. You think irresponsible people don't own Labrador Retrievers? Labs are one of the most widely owned breeds in the US. They are often neglected, beaten, traumatized, etc and yet despite their large size the consequences of being an irresponsible Lab owner are not nearly as great as being an irresponsible pit bull owner.

The Chihuahua argument is one often made by pit bull proponents, but it's completely irrelevant. A Chihuahua is not going to rip your face off. A Chihuahua is not going to mangle your arm. I had a Chihuahua who couldn't even break a human's skin.

Her point about German Shepherds is completely off too. A pit bull attack is far more dangerous than a German Shepherd attack. Saying "full on attack" is a bit deceptive because most dogs don't attack like a pit bull attacks. Most dogs bite and release. Pit bulls attack and do not release and will not give up on the attack, sometimes continuing to attack even after being beaten and stabbed. Sure, if a St Bernard named Cujo gets rabies after being bitten by a bat then I suppose Cujo would be even more dangerous than a pit bull. That's fiction though. In real life St Bernards, despite being much more powerful than pit bulls are nowhere near as dangerous. Sure a St Bernard's bite is likely to cause more damage than a single pit bull bite but it's very highly unlikely to be a "full on attack" like a pit bull attack because a St. Bernard doesn't attack like that.

Many years ago a Dogo Argentino (which looks similar to a pit bull, but is not one) attacked a news anchor on live TV. That woman had to have multiple facial reconstruction surgeries due to a single bite that happened in less than half a second. Of course a Dogo Argentino is much more powerful than an American Pit Bull Terrier but again, it was just a single bite and the attack was over. I've watched dozens and dozens of pit bull attacks and this single bite dynamic rarely happens with them. Virtually every pit bull attack is a "full on attack."

chasfm11 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:18 pm Had I seen it coming, my instinct is to pick up my dog (she only weighs 18lbs) rather than draw my gun.

I'd just caution that this doesn't necessarily mean the dog would be safe. Pit bulls can knock people down. They can jump. I've seen dogs be placed on top of cars/trucks after being freed from a pit bull attack only to have the pit bull jump up and yank the dog down for attack #2.

I'm just speaking generally. For all I know you're a 6'7" 450lb strongman.

Hoodasnacks wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:00 pm You are actually both wrong--German Shepherd bite strength 238 PSI; American Pit Bull 235 PSI (so basically the same). American temperament society test pass rate: German Shepard 85.3%; American Pit Bull 87.4%. Pits actually score higher than golden retrievers (85.6%) and collies (80.8%).

Sorry--I'm a nerd on these types of things. Pitt Bulls are the AR-15 of Dogs. They are not significantly more dangerous than others just like guns--but are still dangerous. People also often see a scary dog and often incorrectly identify it as a pit (https://www.earth.com/news/pit-bull-bite-statistics/ "A study of shelter staff and veterinarians found that the participants over-identified dogs as pit bulls. Only 25 pit bull-type breeds were used in the study, yet participants labeled 62 dogs as pit bulls. Additionally, victims may be more likely to report dog bites from breeds they deem dangerous over less intimidating breeds.") Not saying that you are doing this at all--just pointing out that the stats on this subject are often wrong/over-inflated. There are lots of stats/studies on the issue. E.g. boxers are often mistaken for pits.

You're not nearly as nerdy as you think you are or as you need to be to put out a truly informed opinion on the matter. First of all, there has never been a truly comprehensive scientific study on dog breed bite force. Saying pits have 235 PSI is the equivalent of saying boxers punch at 1600 PSIs, football players run 40 yards in 4.4 seconds, or sprinters run 100 meters in 10.1 seconds. Really they do? First of all, not all pit bulls are pure bred APBTs but even within APBTs you think they are all the same? You think a 30lb APBT bites the same as a 65lb APBT? Pit bulls are different sizes, different ages, and different genders. Even if the statistics were accurate they are fairly useless as they have little bearing as to which dog is the more lethal fighter/attacker. Pit bulls and german shepherds are both powerful enough to do significant damage. What's important is not how much damage a single bite can do but rather how much damage the dog is likely to do.

You can try to make the case that pit bulls are no more dangerous than other dogs but the statistics are very clear, at least in regards to the one statistic that is tracked for every single incident, which is human fatalities from dog bites. Each and every year pit bulls kill more people in the US than every other breed combined. Anytime a person is killed by a dog in the US the media covers it. There are pictures and/or videos of all of these dogs and we are long past the days when breeds in these incidents were misidentified.

Hoodasnacks wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:53 pm
I don't blame you at all for feeling that way and I would probably feel that way too...it just makes me sad to see the statement of a "breed" affecting you, its a bad dog owned by a bad owner (just like an AR15). Their reputation is what attracts bad owners, and the reputation would likely be false but for the bad owners. It is a sad circle.

I'm not too keen on the use of the word "bad" to describe either the dog or the owner. If a lion were to kill a person would we call the lion bad or evil? Yet people like to use these words to describe a pit bull, but if they truly understood the breed I think they would understand that it is simply acting within its nature.

Saying the owners are "bad" is a bit disingenuous too as if the dogs that attack were trained to be that way by drug dealer owners or something. The fact is that many pit bull attacks occur by family pit bulls raised in loving homes. These owners tend to be more irresponsible than anything. Pit bulls are not normal dogs and as such require a higher level of responsibility to handle. I've owned many dogs far more powerful than pit bulls: Tosa Inu, Alabai, Boerboel, and Rotweiller. You know how many times one of these dogs has ever escaped my backyard? ZERO. You know how many times one of these dogs has ever escaped my front door? ZERO. You know how many times I have had these dogs unleashed at the park or in public or even in my front yard? ZERO. It would be extremely reckless for that # to be higher than zero. Same goes for pit bulls.