TexasCHLforum.com

BrassMonkey wrote:The highlighted section is not correct..


All three will disqualify you (at least temporarily) from a CHL. Also, you can become a peace officer with a felonious deferred adjudication on your record, but no CHL. This is in the statutes to read and only a few of the differences.

This is a retry, the first one took to long and I lost it.

§ 411.1711. CERTAIN EXEMPTIONS FROM CONVICTIONS. A
person is not convicted, as that term is defined by Section 411.171,
if an order of deferred adjudication was entered against the person
on a date not less than 10 years preceding the date of the person's
application for a license under this subchapter unless the order of
deferred adjudication was entered against the person for an offense
under Title 5, Penal Code, or Chapter 29, Penal Code.

Okay so the CHL restriction is temporary but mandatory for 10 years.

As to the peace officer:

§ 1701.312. DISQUALIFICATION: FELONY CONVICTION OR
PLACEMENT ON COMMUNITY SUPERVISION. (a) A person who has been
convicted of a felony is disqualified to be an officer, public
security officer, or county jailer, and the commission may not
issue a license to, and a law enforcement agency may not appoint or
employ, the person.
(b) For purposes of this section and Section 1701.502, a
person is convicted of a felony if a court enters an adjudication of
guilt against the person on a felony offense under the laws of this
or another state or the United States, regardless of whether:
(1) the sentence is subsequently probated and the
person is discharged from community supervision;
(2) the accusation, complaint, information, or
indictment against the person is dismissed and the person is
released from all penalties and disabilities resulting from the
offense; or
(3) the person is pardoned for the offense, unless the
pardon is granted expressly for subsequent proof of innocence.
(c) The commission, on receipt of a certified copy of a
court's judgment under Article 42.011, Code of Criminal Procedure,
shall note on the person's licensing records the conviction or
community supervision indicated by the judgment.

This is from the Texas Occupations Code. It does not address deferred adjudication specifically. The Code of Criminal Procedure states:

Except as provided by Section 12.42(g), Penal Code, a dismissal and discharge under this section may not be deemed a conviction for the purposes of disqualifications or disabilities imposed by law for conviction of an offense. For any defendant who receives a dismissal and discharge under this section:

<SNIP>

(2) if the defendant is an applicant for a license or is a licensee under Chapter 42, Human Resources Code, the Texas Department of Human Services may consider {Not Mandatory-DF} the fact that the defendant previously has received community supervision with a deferred adjudication of guilt under this section in issuing, renewing, denying, or revoking a license under that chapter; and

So let me modify my previous statement, "You can become a peace officer with a felonious deferred adjudication (with certain exclusions) but not a CHL for a period of ten years." The exclusion against the CHL is mandated whereas the exclusion for peace officer licensure is discretionary.

I have personal knowledge of peace officers working that have defereed adjudications that to my knowledge were not expunged. I also do not know how long in the past they were. As an aside there are provisions wherein you, as a private citizen can have a DA expunged after fulfilling the requirements.

Don't curse yourself. I think they have had additional training now and the last few times have been relatively trouble free. I will say this though, make sure you have a pocket notebook and pen to record who you talked to and when. If there is any trouble and you need to complain, dates times and names make a difference. Also, the mere presence of such a record will curtail the security supervisors' attitude if he's feeling froggy.

CHL/LEO

Having had to undergo several background checks for various reasons, I have some practical experience for my comparisons. You can have a PI on your record, you can owe alimony/child support and you can have an outstanding student loan and not be disqualified from law enforcement. All three will disqualify you (at least temporarily) from a CHL. Also, you can become a peace officer with a felonious deferred adjudication on your record, but no CHL. This is in the statutes to read and only a few of the differences.

I have personal and first hand knowledge of members of local law enforcement that have had their records expunged (as BrassMonkey has already elucidated) by the hiring agency. So aside from statutory comparisons there is the personal experience as well.

I hope this answers the question.

Hi all,

New to the group but thought I would add to the conversation. It seems that increasingly the government is afraid of its citizenry...but that is an aside.

Prior to 9-11 there were no metal detectors. There were signs scattered about but they did not comply with the effective notice parameters. The "official" DPD policy then was one of don't ask, don't tell. If it became an issue you would be asked to return the weapon to your vehicle.

2001 was the first year I recall metal detectors. As it has already been discusssed, the "search" is by private contract, admission is under the doctrine of "implied consent to search" (like the signs warning that all bags and briefcases are subject to search in sensitive buildings). The contract employees are not the "best and brightest". The first season they prohibited CHL, they had a shooting on the midway. The DPD response was still to be a request to return the weapon to the vehicle. I carried evry time with little trouble. Once with the Glock in a belly band, I was also being monitored for dysrythmias. When the wand squealed I simply lifted my shirt and told him "heart monitor". A deer in headlights look came accross his face with seeing all of the wires and he waved me through. Every other time they either did not detect or did not zero in on the source.

When the state law changed to allow CHL, the first year was great. I once had to show the cop at the gate because the wand person truly had no idea what to do. The cop rolled his eyes in the direction of the security girl and chatted with me a bit before wishing me a good day. The rest of the time they looked and shrugged and on I went.

The next year was horrible. Long wait times, enduring assinine statements by gate personnel and curmudgeonly response by the security supervisors. Two particular instances come to mind:

• Got there midday and went to the East gate, near the barns. I presented my CHL to the wandman and he said, "Let me see it," meaning the weapon. I refused and explained we would be in violation of the law. I instructed him that he was to escort me to the gate supervisor and have them contact a security supervisor. He announced to his partner and the whole line, "I have to walk this guy up, he's got a gun!" My wife was just passing through the gate and thought, "Oh he didn't just holler that." The rest of the people just rolled their eyes. The supervisor took a while and apologized. I told him what happened and he paled. He said that he would pull this "yo-yo" and retrain him.
  
  The next time was worse IMO. We got there about 11:30. I presented the card and was escorted to the gate supervisor. My family went on through. He called for the supervisor and then decided to get all political on me and exuded the woes of society because of guns. He boasted the police ratio was higher per capita than any where else in the United States. When he finished I asked him how the police were to detect and prevent an attack on my family, whether they were changing to remain after 22:00 or leave as per usual practice. I asked whether I would be escorted to my vehicle and whether they would be stationed at every intersection to prevent car jacking. I also rattled off a few statistics about answering on the MICU in the area and the ones I made within the park. My wife came to see what the holdup was and I told her no one had come and "Mr. Whatever" had decided to get political. She went to the security HQ and found all of the supervisors (four) sitting at a break table, she complained to their boss. Before she got back one rolled up with a visible attitude. After he took the information and before returning the card, he decided I needed to be lectured as one would a child. He vehemently warned against "heroics" and getting involved with PD activities. When I tried to interject he became angry and yelled,"Let me finish." Once he did with a, "DO YOU UNDERSTAND?" I took my license and then very calmly entered into my own dissertation. I said,"Sir, I am (something in the middle aged category). FYI to obtain a CHL one must have a record more immaculate than that required to become a peace officer. Further, I have either been a soldier, a patrol supervisor and a firefighter paramedic all of my adult life. Much of my service with Dallas has been answering in this area the various shootings, rapes and aggravated assaults that occur multiple times a day. Some even inside the park. So I will protect my family and in the meantime you do not need to lecture me on the operations of the DPD or the consequences of Deadly Force. Do you understand?" He frowned and hissed, "Have a nice day."

I was hot, I wrote an email and a certified letter to the fair management. I listed the experiences and suggested several alternatives to then current practices. It and what had to have been multiple such letters has evidently had an impact. They now respond relatively quickly, apologize when delayed and make no comment except, "Thank You", "Enjoy the Fair" or "Have a nice day." This will be the third year since the changes...we'll see how it goes.

What I have learned:

• Get there early if possible and park at the Grand Ave or MLK parking; faster service and better clientel overall (Sometimes they don't check or don't care).
  
  Have the family go ahead and meet at a predesignated place or contact on cell phone. There is no reason for them to have to wait.
  
  I carry a pocket notepad and record the names, ETA's and general behaviour of the responding supervisor. This helps if you need to write later and may curb the attitude if one is forthcoming.
  
  Be courteous, these guys are the messenger not the policy maker. For present the procedure is a cost of admission. Politeness can make it relatively painless.

Oh yeah, glad to be on the list.

Kyle