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Great read. And, Shelby Steele himself is biracial http://www.hoover.org/fellows/10347" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Matriculated,

You have been a member of this forum for barely over two weeks. Your first post/topic was a hypothetical self-defense scenario looking to try and challenge those who didn't agree with your view. Your second topic you started was about questionable self-defense techniques you 'supposedly' read about that included using racial slurs and other derogatory remarks. Now you are challenging everyone in this thread and can't even keep your posts straight and contradict yourself on your stance. This is indicative of what is known on forums as a 'troll'.

So, you need to knock off the controversial posts and quit trying to pick fights or you run the risk of being banned.


Keith B
Moderator

Kadelic wrote:

jmra wrote:That is your opinion, but he did not break any law in getting out of his car and following Martin from a distance.

Except that the 911 operator specifically told him not to follow...

I do not have to follow ANY instructions the 911 operator gives me. They are usually NOT law enforcement officers. No matter, they have no force of law.

While I agree it would have been much wiser to have stayed in his car instead of following initially, the 911 operator only asked him if he was following him. When Zimmerman said yes, the 911 operator stated 'You don't need to do that.' He didn't tell him to stop following or to not follow him. However, we are now hearing that Zimmerman may have actually turned around and headed back to his car and then was ambushed by Martin.

EDIT TO ADD: jmra beat me to it.

OK folks. This thread is getting way to personal. I will make a suggestion that everyone drop the discussion for now and cool your jets. If it continues on the downward spiral, then it will be locked.

matriculated wrote: Why don't you wait for the GJ to make a determination before jumping the gun like that and creating a scenario all on your own that differs with many other skeptical, intelligent people's versions of events...? Huh? What are you, impatient?

Ok, #1: No, I'm not in favor of an innocent person going to prison under any circumstances, but clearly I don't think that Zimmerman's innocent. Don't stuff thoughts in my mind and words in my mouth.

OK, talk about a conflict of your views in the same post. I think we have the possum calling the hog long faced.

Bottom line, do not try to tell another member how they should be patient and not form opionions when you clearly have your mind made up he is guilty.

WildBill wrote:

bizarrenormality wrote:

gdanaher wrote:Example: if someone untrained in CPR cracks a few ribs, well they were doing all they could to help a guy live. If the same person has had the Red Cross training class, then there could be a problem with those broken ribs.

Really? Please tell me more about Good Samaritan laws not applying if you took a Red Cross class.

I am not a doctor, but from what I have read, cracked ribs are common when CPR is performed correctly by an MD, RN or EMT. If I am wrong I am sure I will be corrected by a forum member with firsthand experience.

http://depts.washington.edu/learncpr/as ... .html#What" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; if I crack

I used to be a Red Cross CPR and Advanced First Aid Instructor. And yes, cracked ribs and punctured lungs are not uncommon.

As for the Good Samaritan Law, it will protect you if you are doing what you have been trained to do. It also protects those who may just be trying to help even if they have no formal training as long as they were not negligent in what they tried to do, like put a tourniquet around someone's neck for a nosebleed.

Jusster wrote:And the fact that he decided that a 17yo (black) young man walking home from the corner store was suspicious enough to call the police and follow even though he was not breaking any laws. I think that played an even bigger part in the escalation then him being part of NW. I agree with you, we will probably never know all the details of this case.


Jusster

But I ask you this; if the the break-ins in the neighborhood were being committed by black teenage boys, then is his suspicion of this individual racial profiling or just related to the fact he fits the description? The same goes for terrorists, they typically are young men of middle-eastern descent. So where does profiling stop and description matching start? It is a VERY gray line.

If the person fits the description of someone associated with the previous break-ins, then I believe it to NOT be racial profiling and only association with known evidence. Personally, if middle-aged overweight white guys with mustaches were trying to blow up planes, break into houses, etc, then I would not consider it profiling (racial or otherwise) and think it was just evidence matching. Admittedly his comments on the phone 'supposedly' included a racial epitaph (I couldn't hear it, my hearing is bad from shooting and years of rock and roll), Zimmerman's other comments didn't help in portraying him as just a concerned citizen, so that went against him in trying to say it was racially motivated. No matter, he still was on the phone to police and that was the right thing to do if there is ANY suspicious activity in the neighborhood. I would have done the same thing (calling 911 that is) if I saw someone suspicious in the neighborhood, but would have stayed in my vehicle.

The thing people need to understand is the Stand Your Ground laws were just as much there for Martin as they were for Zimmerman. IF Zimmerman approached Martin and started the encounter, then Martin had a right to stand his ground and try and try to defend himself if he was attacked. And, if this was the case, then Zimmerman would NOT have had the right to defend himself, even if loosing the fight.

Likewise, while not a smart move to exit the vehicle and approach a person, if Zimmerman only approached and was not threatening or attacking Martin, but Martin attacked him, then Zimmerman had the right to defend himself as necessary to prevent serious bodily harm from Martin.

Until ALL of the eyewitness accounts are out, and the investigations have completed, I will not form an opinion one way or the other on who is at fault and if it was a justified shooting. There is just too much that we don't know at present.

What I DO hope is that any evidence they have is irrefutable so that it either totally exonerates or truly condemns Zimmerman on his actions. Especially if he is found justified, unless that hard evidence is there, he is going to be a target the rest of his life. AND if this IS the case and he was truly justified, then I think the media should outright have to have to pay for his protection program for the negative spin that they have put on this all along and riled up the masses.

OK folks, keep your discussions civil and do NOT make personal attacks against another forum member. Follow the rules.

OK folks. Last warning. No personal attacks or the thread will be locked.

As my Momma used to say, 'If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.'