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by Solsand
Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:49 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: How Should This Confrontation Be Handled?
Replies: 56
Views: 8395

Re: How Should This Confrontation Be Handled?

WildBill wrote:
thetexan wrote:I don't take it personal and I apologize for snide remarks.

You're a good man wildbill. You keep me on my toes
Thank you, sir. :tiphat:
It is my nature to challenge and question things that don't seem right or make sense to me.
I try to keep everyone on their toes. And other forum members try to keep me on mine. :mrgreen:
And in all honesty I feel unbelievably fortunate to have all the folks who have commented impart their own bits of wisdom and experience regarding my post. Opinions are are also just as valuable as they encourage constructive debate. The benefits of all of this is that I wake up tomorrow with a little more confidence and much better understanding of the statutes that apply to CHL/LTC. I said it before and I mean it.... This forum is awesome! For someone such as myself who only recently started carrying "within" the law, the information is invaluable. In some ways I'm much more anxious now about potential conflicts I could face any day, than I ever was when I carried for YEARS without a license. WHO WOULD HAVE THUNK IT!

A sincere thanks to all.
by Solsand
Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:16 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: How Should This Confrontation Be Handled?
Replies: 56
Views: 8395

Re: How Should This Confrontation Be Handled?

Yes we were taught exactly that in our CHL class. "Especially..." he added, "if there is a significant size difference between aggressor and potential victim." Fists can definitely be considered weapons.
by Solsand
Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:44 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: How Should This Confrontation Be Handled?
Replies: 56
Views: 8395

Re: How Should This Confrontation Be Handled?

Jusme wrote:
Solsand wrote:To all - as the original poster, this thread sort of got away from me. Before I had a chance to reply.This is only my second post and my previous was with regards to open carry on a MC. I tell you I love this forum and every answer to my post was informative or helpful in some way. And a lot of the answers are just plain common sense - "why get out of the car", "why not pull away", etc. The one thing I was taught in my class that I always try to remember was the duty of the CHL holder to de-escalate any confrontation. That one mantra will probably save most folks a lot of pain, trouble and heartache.

That said, because I am an almost daily MC rider, I made one glaring omission when setting up this (as I'm sure most of you have guessed by now) not so hypothetical situation... What if I'm on my bike with no way to remove myself (e.g. blocked in)? This actually occurred to a fellow rider brother of mine. He went out of his way to NOT shoot the guy, but we all wondered if he was within his rights and the law to hold the guy - at gunpoint if necessary - until LEO could arrive. Since he did not, the offender fled and has never been caught (more than a year). Police report after the fact proved he was not the aggressor regardless of whatever road rage incident may have taken place. He was on a bike, the other party approached at the light and before he could side stand his bike to at least defend himself... BAM!

So I apologize to all who have answered my post, but definitely not a waste. These answers still apply to a situation that could occur to anyone. If some of you could now, re-assess this scenario with the changes I have just described. Could he legally hold the offender at gunpoint until LEO arrives, using his phone communication with 911 as a sort of record of the events and to avoid any possible confrontation with LEO arriving on scene?

You guys are awesome and I really appreciate the interest. I'm sure I'm biased but as a MC rider we are constantly - sometimes daily - faced with folks who would rather just run " those scum bikers" off the road. Heaven forbid we flip someone off after the fact or use a get back whip...
While being on a bike definitely changes the inside/outside issue and as a rider myself I know how vulnerable someone on a bike can be not only while moving but while stopped for lights/traffic etc. I still stand by my original reply in that once the gun has been produced and the attack has stopped, then to possibly re-escalate the situation by trying to force the aggressor to stay puts you into a precarious situation in that, if he tries to leave, you would not be justified in using deadly force to stop him from doing so. I would at that point call 911 and speak to any other witnesses and see if they will remain to speak with police.
I think this actually answers my question... if he attempts to flee then I am no longer justified in using force of any kind, to hold him until police arrived. Now, if I attempt to get away from the attacker and he continues to pursue - and I can pull my weapon with no doubt of it not being taken from me - at that point I WOULD be justified correct?
by Solsand
Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:57 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: How Should This Confrontation Be Handled?
Replies: 56
Views: 8395

Re: How Should This Confrontation Be Handled?

To all - as the original poster, this thread sort of got away from me. Before I had a chance to reply.This is only my second post and my previous was with regards to open carry on a MC. I tell you I love this forum and every answer to my post was informative or helpful in some way. And a lot of the answers are just plain common sense - "why get out of the car", "why not pull away", etc. The one thing I was taught in my class that I always try to remember was the duty of the CHL holder to de-escalate any confrontation. That one mantra will probably save most folks a lot of pain, trouble and heartache.

That said, because I am an almost daily MC rider, I made one glaring omission when setting up this (as I'm sure most of you have guessed by now) not so hypothetical situation... What if I'm on my bike with no way to remove myself (e.g. blocked in)? This actually occurred to a fellow rider brother of mine. He went out of his way to NOT shoot the guy, but we all wondered if he was within his rights and the law to hold the guy - at gunpoint if necessary - until LEO could arrive. Since he did not, the offender fled and has never been caught (more than a year). Police report after the fact proved he was not the aggressor regardless of whatever road rage incident may have taken place. He was on a bike, the other party approached at the light and before he could side stand his bike to at least defend himself... BAM!

So I apologize to all who have answered my post, but definitely not a waste. These answers still apply to a situation that could occur to anyone. If some of you could now, re-assess this scenario with the changes I have just described. Could he legally hold the offender at gunpoint until LEO arrives, using his phone communication with 911 as a sort of record of the events and to avoid any possible confrontation with LEO arriving on scene?

You guys are awesome and I really appreciate the interest. I'm sure I'm biased but as a MC rider we are constantly - sometimes daily - faced with folks who would rather just run " those scum bikers" off the road. Heaven forbid we flip someone off after the fact or use a get back whip...
by Solsand
Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:55 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: How Should This Confrontation Be Handled?
Replies: 56
Views: 8395

How Should This Confrontation Be Handled?

Ok here we go, I'd really like to know what is going to be inside/ outside LTC law-

Hypothetically, a road rage incident of some kind takes place. We both have to stop at the next light. Driver approaches me on foot WITHOUT a weapon, words are exchanged. He decides to turn this into a physical confrontation, takes a swing and I am knocked to the ground. I'm carrying - he could be - so I immediately draw my weapon and tell him he can either be shot or he can back off and freeze. I call 911 and explain the situation and ask for LEO to come out. My question- can I legally hold him at gun point until LEO arrives? Will I likely be arrested for drawing my weapon? Not looking for the "you should have just shot him/ fear for life" answer. I am tying to see if this altercation can be handled in the manner I have just described without having to shoot this guy. I know most of you have probably seen the video of the two ragers in Austin last month, where one guy approached the other with a bat. He could have been shot and the shooter would not likely have been charged. This scenario is not what I am describing...

Thoughts? Advice? Thanks.

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