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Liberty wrote:One of the things about New York policy is that they are looking for people with guns. Cops see someone printing they have reasonable suspicion, cause hardly any citizen has a right to carry. If I were to hazzard a guess, I bet most people actually carrying in Texas do so legally.

The problem is, police are using "stop and frisk" not for officer safety, but for fishing expedition for any contraband. The example I gave for road side body cavity searches, cannot possibly be construed as ensuring officer safety.

lildave40 wrote:

SewTexas wrote:

lildave40 wrote:Just my lowly opinion, but if you have nothing to hide what are you worried about?

OMG you didn't really just say that, did you?

I'm can't even respond to this....I'm just going to sit back and let the guys loose

Okay Okay I take it back

ouch

Hey lildave40, you're fully entitled to your opinion, and there are several people, including a lot of LEOs who agree. The original intent may have been honorable, and when dealing with rampant crime, sometimes judges, and lawmakers feel like they have to do something. The problem is that this opinion, has been misused so many times, and has resulted in so many violations, that it needs to be, if not completely overturned, at least have the parameters, more well defined. JMHO

lildave40 wrote:Just my lowly opinion, but if you have nothing to hide what are you worried about?

I'm sure you remember a few years back, when some Texas troopers were stopping women, and having a female officer perform "body cavity" searches on the road side. They tried to use the Terry V Ohio ruling as their justification. What do I worry about? What if it had been my wife or daughter?

lildave40 wrote:Just my lowly opinion, but if you have nothing to hide what are you worried about?

It all comes down to the Fourth Amendment. If the police are given Carte Blanc to stop and frisk anyone that they can say looked suspicious, then they can stop almost anyone, because after all people who wear hooded sweatshirts have committed crimes, people wearing traditional Muslim clothing have committed crimes, teenagers have committed crimes, middle aged men in business suits have committed crimes. Where does it stop?
While I don't personally worry that they would find any contraband on me, nor anyone in my immediate circle, having my rights violated on a whim, without due process worries me greatly.

No one respects the job LEOs do more than myself, and as I said, I have not personally seen these tactics, employed, but if we don't want our 2A rights taken from us, we also have to stand firm in protecting the others.

I am a former LEO, but I believe that this ruling in Terry v Ohio, was a bad decision, and has probably been misused more than any other civil rights violations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio

It allows police to stop and frisk someone without true probable cause, and was ruled not to be an arrest, but if someone resists, then they would be charged with resisting arrest, additionally, if any contraband or unlawful weapons were found, Constitutionally, they should be fruits of the poison tree, and thrown out, but they are not. I never used this tactic when I was in law enforcement, and where I worked, I never saw this being employed by any other officers, but the potential is, and has been since 1968, there, for major abuse.JMHO