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VMI77 wrote:

gregthehand wrote:One impact I've seen in my own family (my father is a practicing OBGYN/doctor) is that the influx of foreign doctors lowered the wages of many doctors here long before Obamacare due to insurance agencies. Basically a doctor from some foreign country would open some crappy OBGYN office in a strip center, by some used medical equipment, and start seeing patients. The insurance companies would work with them to see how much they charge for exams, procedures, delivering babies, c-sections, etc and they would all have low rates. The same insurance companies go back to guys like my dad and say that he needs to lower his rates if he still wants his practice to receive patients from their insurance company. Some plans he had to just tell to take a hike, many he was able to work with, but still wound up taking a lower rate. The end result was that he had to work twice as hard in 2000 as he did in 1980 for the same amount of money. Not the same amount adjusted for inflation, I mean he had to work twice as hard for $100 now than he did then. When Obamacare passed he finally gave it up and became a hospitalist. Him and some of his partners started a little hospitalist company dealing with hospitals that have a need for OBGYNs. Now he works Sunday through Tuesday and makes the same as he did in private practice.

That's the concerning part. As more and more doctors move away from private practice and in to working for hospitals people's choices will rapidly degrade. I can see in my life time a point where whenever you're sick or just need a check up, just just go to the hospital. Whichever doctor you see will be somewhat luck of the draw based on what day it is. Many US doctors can't and just won't continue to practice with insurance companies continually trying to pay them less and less.

That can't be right....our ruling class masters tell us that immigration has no effect on the wages of US citizens. They're only doing work Americans refuse to do.

Bitter Clinger wrote:

WildBill wrote:

Bitter Clinger wrote:May I ask you to please share your data? Thanks!

I don't have any data to share or otherwise.
I have stated my opinions and impressions about the issues.
If working as an MD in the US is so awful why do we have so many foreign trained doctors wanting to work here?

Because it is the US, the best country to live in ever in the history of the world. We are indeed blessed and I know that on that point, you and I share the same opinion! Having traveled overseas, I certainly understand why engineers, MD's, and just about everyone else wants to move here.

Bitter Clinger wrote:May I ask you to please share your data? Thanks!

Bitter Clinger wrote:

WildBill wrote:

VMI77 wrote:Well, the average engineer that I've encountered that was educated in Mexico has been better educated than the average engineer I've encountered in the US...across the board. In cases of high specialization that may not be true but then almost all the Phd engineers I know are foreigners and most of them were educated in the US. Then again I'm dealing with a small sample size so my experience may not be representative.

Also, I have the impression that admission to medical school may play a role in limiting the supply of doctors in order to keep doctors in the money, so it may be more of a quantity than a quality issue. I also think a lot of what doctors do has more to do with keeping supply limited than it has to do with the requirements of good medical care. IOW, RNs and PA's could do a lot of it.

So personally, I am not at all concerned that a doctor is foreign born or foreign educated. Come to think of it, I've run into to plenty of American born and educated doctors that weren't up to snuff, but not any foreign ones.

I completely agree with this statement. If there were as many medical schools as law schools, heath care costs would be reasonable.

Sorry guys, but your theory about medical schools limiting supply does not hold water. The problem is the insurance companies making a medicine an awful place to work - as physicians who care about patients are penalized for "low productivity" and Obamacare has made that 100X worse. As far as American born medical students, the number is decreasing because a majority of American kids just don't want to work that hard or deprive themselves of material wealth until their 30's. No problem filling physical therapy and forest rangery classes. RN's and PA's have an important role, but they are not able to replace experienced, trained physicians. The RN / PA push is many times simply a method to increase "productivity" and meet the infinite number of moronic metrics propagated by new MBA graduates and "lean six sigma" experts. If you desire the best medical care, and you are able to access it, always try to get to a University affiliated teaching hospital.

VMI77 wrote:Well, the average engineer that I've encountered that was educated in Mexico has been better educated than the average engineer I've encountered in the US...across the board. In cases of high specialization that may not be true but then almost all the Phd engineers I know are foreigners and most of them were educated in the US. Then again I'm dealing with a small sample size so my experience may not be representative.

Also, I have the impression that admission to medical school may play a role in limiting the supply of doctors in order to keep doctors in the money, so it may be more of a quantity than a quality issue. I also think a lot of what doctors do has more to do with keeping supply limited than it has to do with the requirements of good medical care. IOW, RNs and PA's could do a lot of it.

So personally, I am not at all concerned that a doctor is foreign born or foreign educated. Come to think of it, I've run into to plenty of American born and educated doctors that weren't up to snuff, but not any foreign ones.

jmra wrote:Had this conversation with a healthcare professional with many years working with "imports". Their experience has been that the imports are much less aggressive in treatment options. This may well be due to the lack of options that were available where they were trained.
That being said, they felt there were some imports that were excellent in their field. If you can find someone that has been on a nursing staff for a while at the hospital they can tell you in a heartbeat who you want and who you don't want regardless of where they were trained.