TexasCHLforum.com

AndyC1911 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:27 pm

Tex1961 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:13 am 20 to 25% failure rate on the range. I average 2 to 3 students out of 10 who fail their proficiency test. Everything from simply not scoring enough points on the target to simply not able to operate their firearm. I have seen everything from trying to load ammo in the magazines backwards, inserting mags backwards, unable to remove magazines because they don't know where the mag release is, unable to rack the slide and the list goes on. Last weekend alone I had to ask 2 students to please leave the range due to being a danger to themselves or others. I get at least 2 students per weekend who have to rent a gun at the range to take their test because they don't have one, students who have NEVER held a gun in their life trying to qualify...

I'm glad you fail them. People want the plastic without putting in the slightest amount of work - nuh-uh.

While I want Constitutional Carry, I'm aware that it means we'll have a lot of incompetents wandering around.

Tex1961 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:13 am I've only been a LTC Instructor for 6 months now, but I have managed to snag a decent contract position with a national carry organization. They started out in Texas as an Online course provider only and then contracted local instructors to administer the live fire portion. Since then they are now offering full in person classes. Since I've hired on with them I average on any given weekend anywhere from 10 to 30 students at the range. Following is just pure fact and statistics as I have experienced in the last month alone.

20 to 25% failure rate on the range. I average 2 to 3 students out of 10 who fail their proficiency test. Everything from simply not scoring enough points on the target to simply not able to operate their firearm. I have seen everything from trying to load ammo in the magazines backwards, inserting mags backwards, unable to remove magazines because they don't know where the mag release is, unable to rack the slide and the list goes on. Last weekend alone I had to ask 2 students to please leave the range due to being a danger to themselves or others. I get at least 2 students per weekend who have to rent a gun at the range to take their test because they don't have one, students who have NEVER held a gun in their life trying to qualify...

About a week before each class I send out a long email with information on what to bring, etc, etc.. The bulk of my email is just explaining that this is a proficiency test, NOT a handgun training class. I also offer private lessons if they need them before the class. Apparently most don't read the email or just assume their going to pick that gun up for the very first time and pass... Most don't..

The demographics are across the chart, young, old, black, brown, white, Asian. Male, Female. Blue collar, white collar, professional... And yes. I do see trends especially with those that are failing. Many in my class especially female are scared and want to protect themselves. But most have absolutly no clue how to handle a gun, let alone be safe with one.

I'm not going to get in the middle of this debate on sides, but I will tell you I absolutely believe in 2A and no restrictions on our fundamental right to keep and bear arms... I am simply relaying my personal experience as a instructor and individual... Take what you will from my post...

One last thing, and this isn't fact.. This is my personal observations here on the forum... While I believe most and I do mean MOST members do a great job on calmly discussing issues and even disagreeing with each other on a friendly basis, I get why some here are hesitant to post anything that doesn't fit in with the general population... They get attacked.. and some are rude, mean and just plain vicious.... Many claim they want a discussion.. No they don't they want to attack because someone disagreed with them... I've had opposite views on posts over the last few years that I've been a member but I've not dared to voice those because I'm going to get attacked, even private messages where members have attacked me... Some pretty mean private messages as well. So NOPE, I try to say as low key as I can....

I'm even sure I'll get some pushback from this post. I hope not as I'm only relaying what I'm seeing and experiencing....

Papa_Tiger wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:45 pm

cirus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:25 pm

ScottDLS wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:08 pm

cirus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:44 pm

ScottDLS wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:29 pm It's already been done. Check out the web page of the group who shall not be named (Voldemort). The outcome is they ask you to leave, and you either leave or get arrested. The point is, permitless carry for long guns already exists in Texas. A previous post said "go all the way and let you carry an AR-15". Well you already can (legally) carry long guns (and SBR's, and machineguns, and short shotguns) open or concealed and nothing has happened. Why not handguns like the other 24 states?

Machine guns? Full autos are illegal without a license. I wanna see you carry a SAW into Walmart Like you say you will be asked to leave or be arrested so at best all you might be able to do is walk down the street with it. Won't be able to enter any business so basically you can't carry it anywhere.

Machine guns are not illegal "without a license". They are illegal if they are not registered in accordance with the National Firearms Act of 1934. I own two. One of which is quite concealable (a small submachinegun). The other one has a folding stock and an 11.5 BBL and is concealable in a backpack. Neither one is considered a handgun in Texas, so they do not require a license to carry in public. I don't know what the fascination with Walmart is, but they have generally made it known that they don't want open carry of handguns in their stores, though they don't post 30.07 signs. Other stores that do allow open carry would probably be OK with my subgun, which is about the size of an AR15 pistol, but heavier. If I wanted to carry though, I'd conceal in a backpack. The point is, why is permitless handgun carry such a stretch in Texas, when permitless long gun and other firearm carry has been legal for a long time?

Walmart is just an example. You say if you wanted to carry you'd conceal in a backpack. Why not open carry? What I'm saying is while it may be legal its frowned upon and when someone calls in on you walking through WALMART or wherever you'll have the law on you.

Minor point, nothing in the current iteration of HB 1927 says that the handgun has to be openly carried. If so-called constitutional carry were to pass in its current form, an unlicensed carrier could carry a handgun openly or concealed, just as they currently can with long guns. Without any training. Without a permission slip from the government. Just like some non-federally prohibited person's over the age of 21 are doing now, but now it would be legal.

How is reducing government involvement and reducing the criminalization of a Constitutionally protected right a bad thing?

jason812 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:27 pm

ScottDLS wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:08 pm
Machine guns are not illegal "without a license". They are illegal if they are not registered in accordance with the National Firearms Act of 1934.

Another infringement. I want Constitutional ownership of machine guns.

ScottDLS wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:08 pm

cirus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:44 pm

ScottDLS wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:29 pm It's already been done. Check out the web page of the group who shall not be named (Voldemort). The outcome is they ask you to leave, and you either leave or get arrested. The point is, permitless carry for long guns already exists in Texas. A previous post said "go all the way and let you carry an AR-15". Well you already can (legally) carry long guns (and SBR's, and machineguns, and short shotguns) open or concealed and nothing has happened. Why not handguns like the other 24 states?

Machine guns? Full autos are illegal without a license. I wanna see you carry a SAW into Walmart Like you say you will be asked to leave or be arrested so at best all you might be able to do is walk down the street with it. Won't be able to enter any business so basically you can't carry it anywhere.

Machine guns are not illegal "without a license". They are illegal if they are not registered in accordance with the National Firearms Act of 1934. I own two. One of which is quite concealable (a small submachinegun). The other one has a folding stock and an 11.5 BBL and is concealable in a backpack. Neither one is considered a handgun in Texas, so they do not require a license to carry in public. I don't know what the fascination with Walmart is, but they have generally made it known that they don't want open carry of handguns in their stores, though they don't post 30.07 signs. Other stores that do allow open carry would probably be OK with my subgun, which is about the size of an AR15 pistol, but heavier. If I wanted to carry though, I'd conceal in a backpack. The point is, why is permitless handgun carry such a stretch in Texas, when permitless long gun and other firearm carry has been legal for a long time?

ScottDLS wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:29 pm It's already been done. Check out the web page of the group who shall not be named (Voldemort). The outcome is they ask you to leave, and you either leave or get arrested. The point is, permitless carry for long guns already exists in Texas. A previous post said "go all the way and let you carry an AR-15". Well you already can (legally) carry long guns (and SBR's, and machineguns, and short shotguns) open or concealed and nothing has happened. Why not handguns like the other 24 states?

ScottDLS wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:20 pm

cirus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:18 pm

MadMonkey wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:25 pm

cirus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:11 am I don't believe you should be required to have a license but should have to have some firearms training to show you know how to operate a handgun.

Now think about who gets to dictate the rules regarding said training.

I understand where you're coming from. Well, if we're gonna have cc with no training required then let's have it to where we can carry AR15's if we choose. If we're gonna do it let's take it all the way.

You CAN carry an AR-15, or other long rifle without a permit...

MadMonkey wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:25 pm

cirus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:11 am I don't believe you should be required to have a license but should have to have some firearms training to show you know how to operate a handgun.

Now think about who gets to dictate the rules regarding said training.

03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:46 am

cirus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:11 am The only problem i have with constitutional carry is this. Several years ago while my wife and I were taking our chl class I observed 2 women on the line that could not load there own mags or chamber a round in their gun. They had no experience whatsoever. The worse part was the instructor helped them load the mags and chamber a round . That's the problem I have . I don't believe you should be required to have a license but should have to have some firearms training to show you know how to operate a handgun. Like hunters education. Just a one time class. Most the people I come across in everyday life don't instill me with confidence. Most are brainless zombies staring at their cell phones oblivious to their surroundings. That's why we have more car wrecks now. If the decision came down constitutional carry with no limitations vs. no constitutional carry at all I'll take it anyway I can get it. Let her rip!

Think of it like this. If they don't know how to load the mags or chamber a round, you don't have to worry about them being a hazard.