TexasCHLforum.com

stevie_d_64 wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:

stevie_d_64 wrote: But thats just me...Austin is starting to concern me these days...

DPS also has a division called the Private Security Bureau. It makes the CHL division look professional.

Lordy...Can I crank call that office???

I wonder if they'd get mad or something...

A person from that office called me the other day and left a message on my voice mail. Her accent was so bad I could hardly understand her, but she said (and I have saved the message) that she was from the "Department Security Office" and then went on with her message. it was only about halfway into the message, and based on the context that I was able to figure out what she was even calling about.

I wrote a flaming (but professional and polite) letter to them, and CCed the Director of DPS, the Private Security Board of Directors and the Director of the PSB.

stevie_d_64 wrote: But thats just me...Austin is starting to concern me these days...

DPS also has a division called the Private Security Bureau. It makes the CHL division look professional.

jlh26oo wrote:

Sorry, I meant not a class a, or b, Which I guess would be undefined,... As reakless driving was.

Even if it's listed as a C on your record? Still "undefined"? You've heard cases of it being considered as if it were a class A or B?

I response to the class c question... there was a court case a while back that said just because it was a class c in one part of the law, didn't prevent the CHL law from defining it as a class A if it met the guidelines... Jail-time as a possible punishment.

I am not sure what your question is, but let me see if I can help; Reckless Driving is not a Class C Misdemeanor. Your last quote is incorrect. Class Cs, IN TEXAS, have no jail time attached and as such, are not a prohibitor from obtaining a CHL. Unless the Class C is disorderly conduct, which is a prohibitor.

In the Traffic laws, Reckless Driving lists a penalty. It is not exactly a Class B misdemeanor;



§545.401. Reckless driving; offense.

(a) A person commits an offense if the person drives a
vehicle in wilful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or
property.

(b) An offense under this section is a misdemeanor punishable
by:

(1) a fine not to exceed $200;

(2) confinement in county jail for not more than 30 days;

What you see above is the offense of Reckless Driving AND the penalty.

What you see below is the punishment for Class B Misdemeanors;


§12.22. Class B misdemeanor.

An individual adjudged guilty of a Class B misdemeanor shall
be punished by:

(1) a fine not to exceed $2,000;

(2) confinement in jail for a term not to exceed 180 days; or

(3) both such fine and confinement.

Note that reckless is NOT a class B either. However, since it has jail time attached as punishment, it is a 5 year prohibitor for CHL.

Make sense?

jhutto wrote:I response to the class c question... there was a court case a while back that said just because it was a class c in one part of the law, didn't prevent the CHL law from defining it as a class A if it met the guidelines... Jail-time as a possible punishment.

Class C's don't have jail time as possible punishment, so I am lost as to your meaning.

gregthehand wrote:There are only a few things you can't get arrested for in TX that are Class C's. Two are speeding, and open container. Now if you refuse to sign the ticket you will get arrested from violating the promise to appear before the magistrate, same with the open container.

That is incorrect. If you refuse to sign a promise to appear you may be arrested for the OFFENSE of speeding or open container. You cannot be charged with violating a promise to appear if you NEVER MAKE a promise to appear.


§543.004. Notice to appear required: certain offenses.

(a) An officer shall issue a written notice to appear if:

(1) the offense charged is speeding or a violation of the
open container law, Section 49.03, Penal Code; and

(2) the person makes a written promise to appear in court as
provided by Section 543.005.

jhutto wrote:Any Idea what state that would be?
I would be super happy to find out I can ignore this stupid law issue...
Also, I did find the definition in blacks law dictionary.

Offense
A violation of the law; a crime, often a minor one.

This could be read to mean an Offense would be a crime, which in NY a traffic infration is not a crime.
FYI I believe reakless driving in texas is a class C Misd, but it does carry the possibility of jailtime. Same end result.
Thanks fgor any help in finding a sympathetic state!

No class C in Texas can have jail attached. Reckless is definined in the Transporation Code;


Texas Transportation Code
§545.401. Reckless driving; offense.

(a) A person commits an offense if the person drives a
vehicle in wilful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or
property.

(b) An offense under this section is a misdemeanor punishable
by:

(1) a fine not to exceed $200;

(2) confinement in county jail for not more than 30 days; or

(3) both the fine and the confinement.

In fact, the code classifies violations under the code as simply "misdemeanors'


§542.301. General offense.

(a) A person commits an offense if the person performs an act
prohibited or fails to perform an act required by this subtitle.

(b) Except as otherwise provided, an offense under this
subtitle is a misdemeanor.

it goes on to give the punishment for those misdemeanors;


Text
§542.401. General penalty.

A person convicted of an offense that is a misdemeanor under
this subtitle for which another penalty is not provided shall be
punished by a fine of not less than $1 or more than $200.

Odin wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:

Odin wrote:Before you plead guilty you might want to have your attorney check into the statute of limitations on your offense and see if the state can still pursue charges. I don't know what the NY law is regarding those matters, but if you were in the state and not a fugitive avoiding prosecution then the state probably has a set length of time to pursue the charges or they may be dismissed. If you're hiring an attorney it's a valid thing to check in to.

He has already been charged. The statute of limitations only applies to the filing of charges.

After filing the charge, and assuming the defendant is not avoiding prosecution which causes the prosecution to be delayed, does the state have to pursue prosecution of the case in any prescribed amount of time, or can the charges hang over someone's head indefinitely?

Good question. if a warrant is issued then it last forever. However, if the state just sits on it, I don't know. This was NY, so Texas law is probably different...Charles???

And I should clarify...by filing charges I mean an indictment in a felony crime and either an indictment or information in a misdemeanor.

Odin wrote:Before you plead guilty you might want to have your attorney check into the statute of limitations on your offense and see if the state can still pursue charges. I don't know what the NY law is regarding those matters, but if you were in the state and not a fugitive avoiding prosecution then the state probably has a set length of time to pursue the charges or they may be dismissed. If you're hiring an attorney it's a valid thing to check in to.

He has already been charged. The statute of limitations only applies to the filing of charges.

jhutto wrote:Ok, well In NY the state lists jail time as a possible punishment, so am I right that the CHL law takes this as a class a misd?
Thanks

I would have to see all of the relevant law. Your snippet is not enough for me to be convinced. It called traffic an "infraction" rather than an offense.

and in Texas, a maximum 15 days would not be a Class A.

KBCraig wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:I fail to see your point. Are we agreeing?

We're not disagreeing. I was just pointing out that you can spend time in jail for a Class C traffic misdemeanor, even though the penalty doesn't carry jail time.

Kevin

Yes. The arrest requiring of bail is a way to insure the person appears for trial. Many people do confuse that.

KBCraig wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:

KBCraig wrote:Most people find it hard to believe that traffic offenses in Texas aren't "infractions" or "violations", but crimes (starting at Class C Misdemeanor and going up) for which you can be arrested.

Being arrested and being sentenced are two different things.

Of course. I wasn't arguing comparative punishments, only pointing out that many people are surprised that Texas traffic laws are misdemeanor (and up) crimes, not merely administrative offenses like in many states.

You CAN be arrested for ALL traffic offenses, but those that are a class C can only be punished by a fine.

You also CAN be arrested and spend a weekend in jail for a traffic code "crime" which carries no possibility of jail. Don't expect a magistrate or JP to be on call over a long holiday weekend in Bugtussle.

Treating non-TX misdemeanors as TX felonies could open all sorts of cans of worms. Suppose someone was convicted of a Class-C equivalent misdemeanor account of peddling "obscene devices" in another state: in Texas, possession of six or more "obscene devices" (i.e., lifelike "marital aids") is de facto "distribution of obscene devices", which is a felony.

You mentioned making a mistake about equating Texas law to other states; I must have missed that clarification. Can you make a specific post about that?

Kevin

I fail to see your point. Are we agreeing?

longtooth wrote:tx, how do you remember all this stuff

I am a former LEO and current CHL and Private Security Licensed instructor. I learned long ago that I would be challenged every time someone heard something opposed to what I knew to be true.

I seldom comment unless I know for sure. Today on this board I made a mistake when commenting about what Texas considered felonies from other states. I don't like to give bad info. So I learned to study applicable law, and discussing it and looking things up keeps me sharp.

One of my "secrets" is knowing where to look for info, and not answering until I have verified the info.

I have also decided to re-enter Law Enforcement, and I have been studying the laws like crazy.

This is my career and life. If I were an accountant, I would know that stuff like I know this stuff. As It is, I hire an accountant and depend on her to know that business and its laws. I depend on attorneys for legal counsel on all sorts of matters. I expect them to know their stuff.

When I have needed spiritual guidance, you have never failed me. You know "that stuff".

Its all a matter of what you focus on.

As a wise man once told me, I don't need a great catalogue as long as I have a great index. lol

"every man is in some way my superior, in that I can learn from him". I believe that was Emerson?

jhutto wrote:NY law ::

vehicle and traffic law/title 9 /article 45/section 1800:

"Every person convicted of a traffic infraction for a violation of any of the provisions of this chapter or of any ordinance, order, rule or regulation adopted pursuant to section sixteen hundred thirty or sixteen hundred thirty-one for which another penalty is not provided shall for a first conviction thereof be punished by a fine of not more than one hundred fifty dollars or by imprisonment for not more than fifteen days or by both such fine and imprisonment"
It does not alternativly define a penalty for speeding.
Therfore any speeding infration in the state of NY is a class A Misd, under texas chl law.

Texas Administrative Code, rule 6.11

(8) the applicant must not, in the five years preceding the date of application, have been convicted of a Class A or Class B misdemeanor or an offense under Texas Penal Code, §42.01. An offense is considered a Class A misdemeanor if the offense is not a felony and confinement in a jail other than a state jail felony facility is affixed as a possible punishment;

KBCraig wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:I find it hard to believe that you could be sentenced to 15 days in jail for simply speeding in NY.

Most people find it hard to believe that traffic offenses in Texas aren't "infractions" or "violations", but crimes (starting at Class C Misdemeanor and going up) for which you can be arrested.

For all but two, that is.

Kevin

Being arrested and being sentenced are two different things. You CAN be arrested for ALL traffic offenses, but those that are a class C can only be punished by a fine.

I know you are referring to speeding and open container not being arrestable, but a person can be arrested for those. They must refuse to sign a promise to appear before they can be arrested for speeding.


Texas Transportation Code
§543.004. Notice to appear required: certain offenses.

(a) An officer shall issue a written notice to appear if:

(1) the offense charged is speeding or a violation of the
open container law, Section 49.03, Penal Code; and

(2) the person makes a written promise to appear in court as
provided by Section 543.005.

(b) If the person is a resident of or is operating a vehicle
licensed in a state or country other than this state, Subsection (a)
applies only as provided by Chapter 703.

(c) The offenses specified by Subsection (a) are the only
offenses for which issuance of a written notice to appear is
mandatory.

jhutto wrote:Ok, so the DWIA is a traffic violation in the state of New York not a criminal offense such as DWI, or DUI, It carries up to 15 day's in jail as a possible punishment. Now, speeding and all other traffic violations carry the same 15 day jail possibility. If I remember correctly, the wording of the CHL law states it is a class a or b misdomiener if texas law would define it as such. I looked up the texas law defining misdomieners and it say' Anything that carries a possibility of a jail sentence is a class a or b misdomiener. Does this mean if I got a speeding ticket in NY I could not get a CHL in texas?

I would not comment without being able to review the NY statutes, but I find it hard to believe that you could be sentenced to 15 days in jail for simply speeding in NY.