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txinvestigator

frankie_the_yankee wrote:
txinvestigator wrote:
frankie_the_yankee wrote:It's not concealed.
Gotta disagree with ya on this one Frankie.

The handgun is openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a
reasonable person.

Even if you KNOW its a holster, it could be empty.
You might be right on a technicality.

But I'm wondering, if a "reasonable person" sees what looks like a holster like in the picture, would it be "reasonable" for him to figure there is a gun in it? Or that there probably is a gun in it?

I can't see that it matters what they figure. The law talks about discerning a handgun, not a holster.

A cop "might" inqiure, but that does not make it illegal.

txinvestigator

9mmGuy wrote:
txinvestigator wrote:
frankie_the_yankee wrote:It's not concealed.
Gotta disagree with ya on this one Frankie.

The handgun is openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a
reasonable person.

Even if you KNOW its a holster, it could be empty.
i was told be our instructor that even carrying an empty holster unconcealed was illegal cause it leaves the open question of where is the gun... is this accurate?

Nope. No law prevents you from carrying an empty holster for the whole world to see. Nor is the law as vague as "cause it leaves the open question of where is the gun..."

Texas Penal Code
Â§ 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

Â§ 6.03. DEFINITIONS OF CULPABLE MENTAL STATES. (a) A
person acts intentionally, or with intent, with respect to the
nature of his conduct or to a result of his conduct when it is his
conscious objective or desire to engage in the conduct or cause the
result.

txinvestigator

frankie_the_yankee wrote:It's not concealed.

Gotta disagree with ya on this one Frankie.

The handgun is openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a
reasonable person.

Even if you KNOW its a holster, it could be empty.

txinvestigator

seamusTX wrote:Thanks. Would you say what is shown in that photo would constitute reasonable suspicion of someone carrying a weapon illegally, even though the weapon is technically concealed?

(I realize that few criminals use holsters.)

- Jim

There needs to be context. Context (totality of the circumstances) is important for RS.

txinvestigator

seamusTX wrote:Could someone with expertise say what constitutes reasonable suspicion for a Terry search?

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/intel/m013006.pdf

- Jim

Sure

Reasonable suspicion is based on the totality of the circumstances as understood by those versed in the field of law enforcement; it is commonly described as something more than a hunch but less than probable cause. And what does totality of circumstances mean? It refers to an assessment based on all the circumstances, which includes objective observations, information from police reports, and consideration of the modes of patterns of operation of certain kinds of lawbreakers.

txinvestigator

KBCraig wrote:As you stand right then, at the moment the picture was made, it was concealed. Now get in your car, drive across town, get out, bend down to pick up something you dropped, go in the store, reach for something on the top shelf...

It's not just whether it's concealed at any given moment, it's whether it stays concealed through a range of normal activity.

Well.........its actually that you don't INTENTIONALLY fail to conceal it. ;)

txinvestigator

in that picture, of course it is.

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