TexasCHLforum.com

John Collins wrote:So many times there is never any follow up on these stories. Number one - he does have a CHL the police just not check throughly enough, but they never go back and say "oh yeah, he does have one" we were wrong initially.

Welcome to the forum John.

Are you the unfortunate subject of this thread, or a friend, co-worker, etc?

casingpoint wrote:Lucky45, a handgun must no longer be concealed while traveling in Texas. And even if concealment was required, in your scenario the towel moved and not the gun, consequently the driver remained in "control" of his weapon, although not the towel. Under the old traveling law necessitating concealment, the driver could be cited.

Lots of misinformation there. Prior to 2005, "traveling" was a non-applicability section to the UCW laws, which then generally prohibited the carry of a handgun on or about your person. Under that law, there was no requirement to conceal the handgun

in 2005, a section was added to traveling that made it a presumption that the person was traveling if the person was in a motor vehicle AND the weapon was not in plain view (equals being concealed). If a person were depending on the presumption then the gun HAD to be concealed.

However, if the person was depending on the undefined "traveling" and not the presumption, then there was no requirement to conceal the handgun. And "control" of the weapon is not the issue. On or about your person was, and still is.

Ans since UCW is a class A misdemeanor at minimum, it is not "cite-able".

But had the driver been in been in a wreck, and the towel, the handgun and every other thing lying loose inside the car strewn about while not under his control, the driver could not be cited, as the gun became unconcealed as a result of a force majeure, an unforseen event in which a party is excused from liability if prevented from performing a legal obligation, namely, to conceal the weapon.

There was no stated culpability in the pre-2005 non-applicability nor the 2005 one.

However, since UCW has a culpability of Intentionally, knowingly or recklessly, hiding a gun under a towel and having it slide certainly could subject the person to arrest under UCW.

However, as the discharge did occur within the confines of a synagogue, the incident does highlight an advantage to carrying a semi automatic pistol with an empty chamber, a.k.a. in the "Israeli Draw" mode.

You mean the advantage of carrying a club?

We don't know what type of gun the man was carrying, but if was WAS on safe as he said, the it must have been one without a firing pin block. I don't carry one of those, and would not. The argument for the goofy "Israeli draw mode" only applies to those without a firing pin block.

casingpoint wrote:seamus wrote <<<Actually, the pistol was not concealed at the time that it discharged. If it had been in a holster, the incident probably would not have happened.>>>

The pistol was concealed until Mr. Marks lost his control over it and the gun fell to the floor and discharged. This is an accidental discharge of a concealed weapon. The fact that it was unconcealed when it actually fired is immaterial. What determines is how it was being carried when it went out of the owner's control. If it had NOT been carried concealed, but in the open, Mr. Marks or a bystander might have noticed the gun in a precarious condition and prevented the unwanted discharge.

Wow. There are lots of HUGE stretches in this thread.

casingpoint wrote: First rule of the gun is never point it at anybody you don't intend to shoot. Second rule is never assume it's unloaded. Third rule is never assume a gun won't go off.

I never heard that rule three;

1. All guns are always loaded.

2. never allow the muzzle to cover anything you are not willing to destroy.

3. Keep you finger off of the trigger until on target and ready to fire.

4. Always know your target and what is beyond.

Anyone unconcerned about others while carrying in a shoulder holster should ask themselves would they utilize one where the gun points straight up at their armpit and the brachial artery.
http://www.dlsports.com/holster_dual_j_ ... up_med.jpg

I don't understand this. You can't control what anyone else does,regardless of where they carry.

Regarding open and concealed carry, the later has the advantage of surprise, the former speed. Depends on where you are and the likelihood of something going down.

Thats a big assumption. I don't deep carry, and I can draw from concealment as quickly as many can from OWB.

Had the patrons at Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen been packing openly in 1991 as a matter of public policy, George Hennard probably would have been less inclined to enter the building and kill twenty-three people and shoot another twenty.

Really? He killed himself. He planned to die. I don't think open carry would have effected him at all. He didn't know if there were a table full of plainclothes detectives in there or not, and he didn't care. He was going to die. So I have to say you are making an invalid assumption.

And if he had, the outcome would have been decidedly different. The same might well be said for concealed carry, but an important visual deterrent factor is completely absent.

I don't believe OC is a visual deterrent. There are plenty of people who OC and are crime victims. There were a couple of armed armored car guards robbed here not too long ago.

The visual deterrent to criminal activity, inherent in the open carry of firearms, is a freebee which should be itegrated into social policy.

There is no evidence of that. In fact, I say there is evidence to the contray.



BTW, thank you for your service to our country, and the sacrifice.