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TVegas

VMI77 wrote:

That belief is required under (B), preventing escape with the property, and is preceded from the previous part with "or." So, it reads...deadly force against another is justified....to prevent imminent commission of.....robbery, aggravated robbery.....OR, to prevent escape, IF 3.A or 3.B. These sections refer back to 9.41, 9.32, and 9.31. 9.31 and 9.32 also list robbery and aggravated robbery as justifications for the use of deadly force.

My apologies, VMI77. I meant section 2. It requires that deadly force be reasonably necessary to prevent the acts listed in section 2(A).

I'm not trying to mix apples and oranges. The apples and oranges are already mixed. What I'm saying is that we have to be aware of that and act accordingly.

I understand what the law says, but Texas law isn't necessarily the law in other jurisdictions. Again, I was offering a general mindset that applies in virtually every jurisdiction of the Unites States. If you disagree with that, I respect your opinion, but there's no need for us to argue about it.

Have a nice day, and hopefully we will never have to apply these ideas in the real world.

TVegas

Abraham wrote:"Many people tend to think that drawing a gun, knife, or other deadly weapon is legal if someone is attempting to rob you or commit some other crime, but that is not necessarily the case."

"...if someone is attempting to rob you or commit some other crime..."

If someone is attempting to rob me or commit some other crime (presumably/violently aimed at me) you think it unreasonable for me to defend myself with say, a pistol? Or, that if I'm under the threat of such an attack, I have an obligation to give the benefit of the doubt to the robber/criminal?

I should take my time, mull it over, make certain the robber/criminal gets a lot of leeway before I defend myself?

Doesn't compute.

That's not what I'm saying at all. The idea that it's better to be judged by twelve than to be carried by six still applies, but even you inserted the words "violently" and "attack." Those words suggest that it would be reasonable to use deadly force.

Let me make it more clear. When a bully demands a child's lunch money, that is a robbery, but I think we can all agree that it would be unreasonable to draw a gun on the bully. A robbery or the smell of a potential robbery does not automatically make it reasonable to draw a gun. There still has to be a threat of injury or death.

Seriously think about what exactly I'm saying. Don't fulfill the trigger-happy conclusions that the antis draw about us. We're all on the same side here.

TVegas

VMI77 wrote:
TVegas wrote:Many people tend to think that drawing a gun, knife, or other deadly weapon is legal if someone is attempting to rob you or commit some other crime, but that is not necessarily the case. The ONLY thing that will generally allow you to legally threaten the use of deadly force is a situation in which a reasonable person (not you or me) would reasonably believe that the use of deadly force was necessary to protect themselves or another person against death or serious injury under the circumstances. So if you draw your weapon before deadly force is actually reasonable, you may be the one who is held responsible if someone is hurt or killed.

What I have said is just a baseline, and many instances will depend on the limitless circumstances and the opinion of law enforcement, so understand that what I have said is not gospel. Take it with a grain of salt.

The safest way I like to think about it is this: We only take a life to save a life. (Not my original idea)
Quoted from another thread:

9.42 deals with this scenario and states:

A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

You are ignoring section 3 of the statute, which requires reasonable belief that deadly force is necessary.

I was offering a general mindset that will keep us within the law in almost every jurisdiction of the United States.

TVegas

Many people tend to think that drawing a gun, knife, or other deadly weapon is legal if someone is attempting to rob you or commit some other crime, but that is not necessarily the case. The ONLY thing that will generally allow you to legally threaten the use of deadly force is a situation in which a reasonable person (not you or me) would reasonably believe that the use of deadly force was necessary to protect themselves or another person against death or serious injury under the circumstances. So if you draw your weapon before deadly force is actually reasonable, you may be the one who is held responsible if someone is hurt or killed.

What I have said is just a baseline, and many instances will depend on the limitless circumstances and the opinion of law enforcement, so understand that what I have said is not gospel. Take it with a grain of salt.

The safest way I like to think about it is this: We only take a life to save a life. (Not my original idea)

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