TexasCHLforum.com

Has anyone been to the Addison Oktoberfest this year? Are they still posting unenforceable "no firearms" signs?

The desired result here is that the Town of Addison adopt a process like the State Fair and signage so indicates the same. They can no firearms allowed per 30.05 if they want, but they should have language saying "doesn't apply to CHL holders" and then train their staff to deal with CHL holders, just like the State Fair. If they did that I would be good. But plastering signs all over the place in large block red letters saying "NO FIREARMS ALLOWED" to me is inconsistent with the spirit of 411.209 in the absence of such a process.

Please send the letter. I am sending one to the City Attorney and Police Chief.

All good RoyGBiv. Good healthy debate.

I am dealing more with the practicalities of what those signs do than necessarily their technical legal effect. The practicality is most people can't do advance work on these kinds of things. We go to an event expecting that the law will be followed and shouldn't have to deal with this at all. 2 of my family members are CHL holders and it stopped them dead in their tracks, no way they were going to get wanded and be made a spectacle. That's just human nature. Addison should not be allowed to get away with that. I believe a good case can be made that 411.209 is violated via the spirit of the law (maybe not the letter of the law).

Maybe Charles has a view whether a "NO FIREARMS ALLOWED" sign on local government property is eligible for the 411.209 process?

Does anyone believe that signs which say NO FIREARMS ALLOWED with nothing else are legal under the new law? And does anyone believe that CHL holders will be given the red carpet once they get wanded and have to deal with security and law enforcement? And finally does anyone believe that most CHL holders will say damn the torpedoes and plow ahead into a security line with that sign being posted, or go back to their cars and disarm themselves just to avoid the near certain hassle they will encounter?

I know you are right - technically those signs don't fit nicely into the new statute because they don't mention CHLs or 30.06, but I believe an unqualified NO FIREARMS ALLOWED sign on local government property are not legal. They don't exclude CHL holders. Just my view.

What you are missing is (1) the signs are illegal because they purport to ban ALL firearms carriers, even those who hold a CHL, (2) the chilling effect this has on people (like me) who are going to this event with their families and "don't want trouble," i.e., the hassle of dealing with all of this, and undoubtedly the security personnel have no clue, meaning cops will show up and now you are spectacle, and (3) we need to stand up to these kinds of things and eliminate them.

Even though the signs are illegal doesn't mean we all want to get into a big mess with cops and security and all that stuff. Most people will just put their guns away because they don't want the hassle, meaning next year the same stuff will happen. We of all people need to use the legal process now given to us via 411.209, not get into a mess at the event itself.

I just got back from the Addison Oktoberfest, which takes place at Addison Circle Park (I believe city property but am not 100% sure). At the entrance were a whole bunch of signs in red block letters saying "No Firearms Allowed" with some of those signs citing to Texas PC 30.05). Private security was wanding people, thus creating a situation where even CHL holders might be dissuaded from "dealing with it."

I believe those signs are completely unenforceable as against CHL holders, but is this an opportunity to file a complaint per the new law?