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mr1337 wrote:I fully support anyone who refuses to show ID to an officer when they're not arrested, pulled over, or being written a citation.

You shouldn't have to "present your papers" on demand.

Just as it's your right to refuse to consent to searches, it's your right to refuse to identify yourself to an officer.

Why does an officer need to identify you if you're not arrested or cited anyways? So he can make sure you're not a felon? Does he have reason to believe you're a felon? The presence of a gun, when lawfully carried, cannot be the sole purpose of a detention. I support our police, but I support our Constitutional rights even more. Even though you may not agree with some rights, that doesn't make them any less important.

If you would like to accuse me of not agreeing with MY rights, you are sadly mistaken. You have your rights, how you use them is the kicker. Say, we both get stopped walking down the sidewalk... here's an example.

You: Refuse to show any ID and demand to be let on your way because you have done nothing wrong. (Fine, you used your rights, good for you.)

Myself: I am overly compliant and offer my ID's, as well as strike up a conversation with the officer, ask him how he likes his department, if he plans to stay with LE or wants to get into something else... (I still retain my rights, and am kind and courteous, and possibly establish a new friendship and/or acquaintanceship.)

Just because I don't feel the NEED to use my rights to the T, does not mean I disagree with them. I'm closer to a neutral party on this topic, but believe me, if I feel a need to use my rights, I will. Unless I FEEL the need to, I won't. Just like my 2A, just because I have it doesn't mean I'm going to use it every time I get the chance. Sometimes things can be settled with a bit of courtesy.

tbrown wrote:

Abraham wrote:Here's my hope.

Those willing to O.C. won't be in put in a harassed class.

They'll be scrutinized if they deserve to be...

If the authorities care about public safety, it would make a lot more sense to randomly stop drivers to make sure they have a license, financial responsibility, properly inflated tires with sufficient tread, etc.

I think so as well, but that would also put unnecessary stops and delays on the general public. You're driving to a meeting, and you get pulled over because I want to check your License, Registration, and Insurance, as well as vehicle safety check... you would probably not be happy about my causing you to be late to an important meeting. Given a reason to be pulled over, that's a different story.

EEllis wrote:

Dave2 wrote:

Charlies.Contingency wrote:How many of us here go anywhere without our wallet on us? I feel naked without it, because I have my Id's, money, cards, insurance information...

I do, every time I go for a walk. I'll take just my DL and CHL with me if I'm carrying, but everything else typically stays at home.

That is all great and well but there is a subset of the population who doesn't carry ID as a countermeasure to law enforcement. Doesn't make it ok for the police to make assumptions based on not having ID but I would think that after seeing so many people who specifically refuse to carry ID because they are criminals, it may be almost impossible not to get a bit, lets just say suspicious.

I agree, though there is a small few who do not always carry their identification on them, the majority of whom I have seen, either forgot, or "intentionally forgot" their ID. How easy is it to say, that you are "Joe Schmoe" with a D.O.B. of 06/09/1982, when that is your brother? How many criminals walked away because they matched the description of somebody they know, and new enough identifiers to lead an unknowing officer to falsely identify them? Sure you could carry your brothers ID if he looks similar to you, but that's getting extreme I suppose. Regardless to say, whenever somebody tells me, "I forgot my wallet at home," or "I must have left it in my other bag," goes up there on the suspicious scale. Kinda like smelling kinda like cannabis whenever somebody rolls down their window, suspicions start raising, though I have at that point, no proof of wrong doing... I might be kicking the horse, but there is no good reason in my book for not being able to get an ID and carrying it, just my opinion of course.

Kennyg wrote:I think u should carry an id for the reason the Leo stated he doesn't know who u are .it seems to me this person is really just harassing the Leo to make a point. Why walk around with a gun and no id . Wrong wrong wrong your not helping your cause.

No supporting either side, but had he carried his ID like any other normal law abiding citizen, he could've pranced around with his AR-15 and sign, without having to worry about what he went through. How many of us here go anywhere without our wallet on us? I feel naked without it, because I have my Id's, money, cards, insurance information... He'd rather have his AR-15 and not need it, then need it and not have it? What about his wallet? I'd rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it. Seems to me like he INTENTIONALLY left his information behind to "express his rights" when confronting the police. No offense, but there are easier ways to show enjoy your rights, the guy seems like he wash pushing buttons.

Still does not excuse the officer in question, as his statements are not acceptable. I don't make threats of something, unless I can and intend to do them if needed. I bet he was bluffing, but there's no telling.

Fight for your rights, but don't go out looking to stir trouble...