Search found 7 matches

by Charlies.Contingency
Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:33 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Oilfield Prohibition of Firearms.
Replies: 17
Views: 4408

Re: Oilfield Prohibition of Firearms.

hillfighter wrote:
Charlies.Contingency wrote:
Jim Beaux wrote:I wont go into much detail here, but - be quiet and quit stirring up issues that currently arent issues. On site we dont want to know; dont want to see; & dont want to talk about certain things. The rule is, what happens out on the site stays out on the site.

Also, the land owner has the say on what happens on his land.
Are you telling me to shut up about this issue?
I think he's telling employees to think twice before they rock the boat.
I hope so, the wording leaves the directive quite gray. :???:
by Charlies.Contingency
Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:35 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Oilfield Prohibition of Firearms.
Replies: 17
Views: 4408

Re: Oilfield Prohibition of Firearms.

Jim Beaux wrote:I wont go into much detail here, but - be quiet and quit stirring up issues that currently arent issues. On site we dont want to know; dont want to see; & dont want to talk about certain things. The rule is, what happens out on the site stays out on the site.

Also, the land owner has the say on what happens on his land.
Are you telling me to shut up about this issue? That kinda seems a little personal, don't you think? I'm not trying to stir any kettle, or drop a surprise into anybody's soup here. There is the question out there, and I decided I would ask on behalf of others who simply don't know. It's something that's intrigued me since I first read beyond 52.061 to discover that there were exemptions to the restriction of restrictions. (Sounds kinda funny when I put it like that.)

I thought it was pretty much said and done.
by Charlies.Contingency
Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:58 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Oilfield Prohibition of Firearms.
Replies: 17
Views: 4408

Re: Oilfield Prohibition of Firearms.

screaminz2002 wrote:Im glad you posted this as I guess I wasnt clear on what the law was either..
To further confuse things, farmer Joe may not own the mineral rights and therefore does not have a mineral lease. What he does own is a surface agreement with monetary penalties to the leasing company. So this law does protect you in some circumstances but is not clear by the signs posted at the entrance.
The rest appears to apply to your companys feelings on firearms. It is amusing in the fact that if I enter another companies plant or facility, that there only recourse is to ask me to leave and to notify my employer. Nothing really changes in my day to day operations but its always nice to know what the law is.

On a side note: I thought there was some FERC laws that applied to a public utility status of regulated plant about firearms but I cannot find anything. Is this just old superstition?
That's why I posted it! :mrgreen:

And you are right about the lease part, but most ranches I've seen myself still own their mineral rights, therefore likely have a lease to the oil companies. I think the only way to know 100% is to ask what all the polices are, and inquire about lease status, but that would be sending up red flags to most peoples' boss, "Hey, I have a gun!" IMO. It must be really unfortunate for those that go ranch to ranch all the time, under different companies. It's be very difficult to find all the information in a timely manner! Which is why I think it should be posted at the property's entrance, what they prohibit, so there is no room for doubt. :nono:

In regards to your side note, you have me lost! I've never heard of such a thing, but I don't know everything either.
by Charlies.Contingency
Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:44 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Oilfield Prohibition of Firearms.
Replies: 17
Views: 4408

Re: Oilfield Prohibition of Firearms.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Charlies.Contingency wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:Labor Code §52.062(E) simply means that an employer can tell an employee not to have firearms in the employee's vehicle when they go onto Farmer Brown's property to work on a well. It does not create a criminal offense, it just means the employee can be fired.

This provision was necessary to get one Senator to vote to bring the bill to the floor. It's totally unnecessary as Farmer Brown's land is not a parking lot owned or controlled by the employer.

Chas.
So essentially, there is no penalty for getting caught, except through your employer. I asked him if he could park on public property, outside his the gates he guards, and he said he would, if there was enough room to park off the side of the road, but there is nowhere to park except inside the gate, on the ranch property. I just don't want to lead him on to getting in trouble legally, as he could care less about his what his employer thinks about it, and his direct supervisors have no intention of searching for firearms. :nono:

Thank you very much Chas, if there is anything you'd like to correct me on, please do. Once again you have been very helpful! :cheers2:

Note: He only gets cell coverage when he is off his shift, so if he did encounter trouble, he'd be at the mercy of his attackers, unless he could retreat to his vehicle, and escape or defend himself. That's a terrible set of choices, but if it wasn't hard enough to find a good paying job these days, I'd suggest he find a new one! He makes more money than I ever have, and he's not even armed, that just tickles me pink! Hopefully his company upgrades to a level III contract, too much bad stuff over there around Carrizo Springs, Laredo, and Eagle Pass. :fire
I'm an attorney, but I'm not his attorney. I strongly suggest that you do not give him legal advice either.

The Employer Parking Lot Law does not create on offense; it protects employees from certain acts by their employers related solely to an employer's parking lot. Nothing you have described meets that criteria.

Chas.
Thank you Chas, and if I ever do need an attorney, I will certainly give you a call! Thank you for the information none the less, as it helped me understand a section of the labor code that has evaded my understanding for quite some time. I don't try to give out legal advice, I just try to help others find the information their looking for in text, and let them make up their own minds on what they want to do, but this section even through me for a loop, and I did not understand it for myself! :banghead:

Enough said I suppose, until next time Chas.

Charlie
by Charlies.Contingency
Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:20 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Oilfield Prohibition of Firearms.
Replies: 17
Views: 4408

Re: Oilfield Prohibition of Firearms.

screaminz2002 wrote:This is unbelievably grey. The firearm restrictions on those signs come directly from the land owner land lease agreement and not the company so I would say are unenforceable under that law. There are others I travel to that have enforceable company restrictions and do active searches of vehicles which is the company policy. Really you should know where you are going if you are in the business and already know what their policy is. It's easier then it sounds. I politely refuse and leave the property when confronted as I do not have to be there. I usually just phone my contact for the place to let them know I cannot enter and I am back on with permission in an hour. It's funny how most down in south Texas still have common sense. Still I have never heard of anything past being barred from a ranch is the punishment. to be honest, no one wants to wait several hours for a leo who is most likely going to send you on your way. This is going to be 99% location location location. Eagle Ford is a dangerous place and I can wow you with unbelievable stories that have happened to co-workers and friends since 2008. Parts of Barnett Shale, not so much and is a totally different world. Probably going to jail there if in Tarrant. If there is ever a reason to carry a gun in Texas or open carry of a long rifle, Eagle Ford is it. I know some of our op guys that carry their AR in the truck. Border patrol, DPS, sheriff, etc. will not bother you and your chance of being prosecuted for something reasonable is almost zilch. This is why I am really bothered by seeing people open carry in a Starbucks or Target.. Most of these people are clueless that places still exist with no cell service, help that is non existent, and the feeling of truly being on your own.

Long paragraph to say I would honor what your company policy is. There are not many in my field of work that are unarmed.It is still a culture of I will show you mine if you show me yours mixed with a bit a common sense. I am going to guess that just by reading your post that this isnt your field of work. It was probably almost an odd question for your friend to answer.
I think you got myself and my friend mixed up, but that's okay, I still understand what you mean. I wouldn't bothe.r a CHLer for something like that, BUT, I am not entirely doubtful that a company man might use a situation like this as an example to other employee's, and press charges if applicable. Security isn't my line of work anyway, but hey, it's sad when a level two guard makes more than a County Deputy does. :banghead:
by Charlies.Contingency
Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:16 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Oilfield Prohibition of Firearms.
Replies: 17
Views: 4408

Re: Oilfield Prohibition of Firearms.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Labor Code §52.062(E) simply means that an employer can tell an employee not to have firearms in the employee's vehicle when they go onto Farmer Brown's property to work on a well. It does not create a criminal offense, it just means the employee can be fired.

This provision was necessary to get one Senator to vote to bring the bill to the floor. It's totally unnecessary as Farmer Brown's land is not a parking lot owned or controlled by the employer.

Chas.
So essentially, there is no penalty for getting caught, except through your employer. I asked him if he could park on public property, outside his the gates he guards, and he said he would, if there was enough room to park off the side of the road, but there is nowhere to park except inside the gate, on the ranch property. I just don't want to lead him on to getting in trouble legally, as he could care less about his what his employer thinks about it, and his direct supervisors have no intention of searching for firearms. :nono:

Thank you very much Chas, if there is anything you'd like to correct me on, please do. Once again you have been very helpful! :cheers2:

Note: He only gets cell coverage when he is off his shift, so if he did encounter trouble, he'd be at the mercy of his attackers, unless he could retreat to his vehicle, and escape or defend himself. That's a terrible set of choices, but if it wasn't hard enough to find a good paying job these days, I'd suggest he find a new one! He makes more money than I ever have, and he's not even armed, that just tickles me pink! Hopefully his company upgrades to a level III contract, too much bad stuff over there around Carrizo Springs, Laredo, and Eagle Pass. :fire
by Charlies.Contingency
Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:23 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Oilfield Prohibition of Firearms.
Replies: 17
Views: 4408

Oilfield Prohibition of Firearms.

I have a question that I would like to bring up to our unofficial lawyers and Chas. I have a friend working out of El Paso, who works for a security company. He is a level two security guard working just over the border from Mexico, and he is a gate guard, logging truck's in and out of different ranches. I told him that it could be illegal for him to have his CCW stored in his vehicle, if the property has an active, unexpired oil lease, and prohibits weapons. I was returned with the question, "What does provision literally mean?" I could not answer that question with 100% accuracy, and it seems eerily vague. My understanding would be a sign, outlining the restrictions of the property, like most ranches do, prohibiting firearms, knives, alcohol, and so forth. His question, was that if his company has a general, "No Firearms Policy" unless he's a level three, does that mean his company can prohibit him from having his weapon in his vehicle even if there is no signage? He was also told he has to abide the policy of the company that contracts his, even though he has not signed to their policy's, seen them, read them, nor seen it posted at the entrance to the properties he works at.

I have a hard time swallowing, that a security guard of all people, working on the border as a gate guard, can be prohibited from having his Legal CCW in his vehicle if he has a CHL. It just does not seem right to me, and if they are not actively posting prohibiting firearms on that specific property, he shouldn't have to abide by his company's no firearms policy. I'd rather be judged by twelve then carried by six... :???: Any help on this guys/gals?

Below I have the section of the Labor code in question, up for view. The blue and red sections are relevant to the situation.
SUBCHAPTER G. RESTRICTIONS ON PROHIBITING EMPLOYEE TRANSPORTATION OR STORAGE OF CERTAIN FIREARMS OR AMMUNITION

Sec. 52.061. RESTRICTION ON PROHIBITING EMPLOYEE ACCESS TO OR STORAGE OF FIREARM OR AMMUNITION. A public or private employer may not prohibit an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees.

Added by Acts 2011, 82nd Leg., R.S., Ch. 1058 (S.B. 321), Sec. 1, eff. September 1, 2011.


Sec. 52.062. EXCEPTIONS. (a) Section 52.061 does not:

(1) authorize a person who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition to possess a firearm or ammunition on any property where the possession of a firearm or ammunition is prohibited by state or federal law; or

(2) apply to:

(A) a vehicle owned or leased by a public or private employer and used by an employee in the course and scope of the employee's employment, unless the employee is required to transport or store a firearm in the official discharge of the employee's duties;

(B) a school district;

(C) an open-enrollment charter school, as defined by Section 5.001, Education Code;

(D) a private school, as defined by Section 22.081, Education Code;

(E) property owned or controlled by a person, other than the employer, that is subject to a valid, unexpired oil, gas, or other mineral lease that contains a provision prohibiting the possession of firearms on the property; or


(F) property owned or leased by a chemical manufacturer or oil and gas refiner with an air authorization under Chapter 382, Health and Safety Code, and on which the primary business conducted is the manufacture, use, storage, or transportation of hazardous, combustible, or explosive materials, except in regard to an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and who stores a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees that is outside of a secured and restricted area:

(i) that contains the physical plant;

(ii) that is not open to the public; and

(iii) the ingress into which is constantly monitored by security personnel.

(b) Section 52.061 does not prohibit an employer from prohibiting an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, or who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, from possessing a firearm the employee is otherwise authorized by law to possess on the premises of the employer's business. In this subsection, "premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f)(3), Penal Code.

Added by Acts 2011, 82nd Leg., R.S., Ch. 1058 (S.B. 321), Sec. 1, eff. September 1, 2011.

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