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by oljames3
Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:37 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Is this legal open carry?
Replies: 31
Views: 22301

Re: Is this legal open carry?

LDP wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:16 pm
Flightmare wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 2:40 pm What if the holster on the car seat was attached to a belt, would it be legal then?
The law states no requirement for a belt to be present.
But he handgun must be carried on the licensed person.

So you could have your handgun in a belt holster tied around your neck with twine and you would be a-ok by the current law. Yay, lawmakers, right? :mrgreen: :biggrinjester: :smilelol5:

I'd like to see that court discussion.
Just as the Texas Penal Code does not say a holster has to be on a belt, it does not say the holster has to be on the person. TPC 46.02.(1-1) says "on or about his or her person." Of course, just reading the black letter law doesn't mean a judge/jury will see it that way.
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs ... /PE.46.htm
by oljames3
Tue May 19, 2020 3:33 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Is this legal open carry?
Replies: 31
Views: 22301

Re: Is this legal open carry?

jmorris wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 2:28 pm
strogg wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 12:07 pm IWB/open is exactly how I've been carrying this past week, including this morning when I was running errands.

IANAL, but this is how I interpret the laws: as long as the holster is a shoulder or belt holster (regardless of design), it is fine to use. Open carrying with a belly band, pocket holster, or ankle holster is not fine because the letter of the law does not have an exception to these methods of carry. For those wondering about open carrying in a pocket holster, imagine carrying a large pocket pistol (eg LC9s, P365, etc) in a pocket holster designed for jeans pockets that are bigger than the ones you have. It is perfectly safe and well retained for carry, but the grip is very much sticking out of your pocket.

The only type of holster I can think of in a gray area is a drop leg holster. Technically, your belt is a critical attachment point, but does it really qualify as a belt holster if it also has critical attachment points to the leg.
During my instructor class, 2016, the DPS instructor stated that a belt holster is one directly attached to a belt so a drop leg holster doesn't qualify. A drink cup held onto you by a belt of masking tape does. Yes, he had one on while stating that.

So, for the OP, if the clip is on the belt it appears to qualify. Take the belt off so there's only the waistband holding it and it's not valid.

The point seemed to be that being designed to be used on a belt doesn't make it a belt holster, being on a belt does. This is also why they said a handgun in a holster laying on a car seat is not legal. It's not in a belt holster cause the holster is not attached to a belt.

Don't know if they're still stating this. Recent grads chime in here.
And it is all opinion until we have case law.
by oljames3
Tue May 19, 2020 1:01 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Is this legal open carry?
Replies: 31
Views: 22301

Re: Is this legal open carry?

strogg wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 12:07 pm IWB/open is exactly how I've been carrying this past week, including this morning when I was running errands.

IANAL, but this is how I interpret the laws: as long as the holster is a shoulder or belt holster (regardless of design), it is fine to use. Open carrying with a belly band, pocket holster, or ankle holster is not fine because the letter of the law does not have an exception to these methods of carry. For those wondering about open carrying in a pocket holster, imagine carrying a large pocket pistol (eg LC9s, P365, etc) in a pocket holster designed for jeans pockets that are bigger than the ones you have. It is perfectly safe and well retained for carry, but the grip is very much sticking out of your pocket.

The only type of holster I can think of in a gray area is a drop leg holster. Technically, your belt is a critical attachment point, but does it really qualify as a belt holster if it also has critical attachment points to the leg.
I am not aware of any court cases involving a decision about what is "a shoulder or belt holster" in the context of Texas law.https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs ... /PE.46.htm Until we have case law, we only have opinion. Here is an opinion from the then Police Chief of Houston and the then Harris County DA. Obviously, this is from 4 years ago, but it represents the opinion of the main law enforcement of Houston and Harris county at the time and is, just as obviously, still available on Art Asevedo's HPD's web site. There are two videos and a Q&A section. Item 26 on the Q&A list is:
What is a “belt holster” and what kind of holster would be a violation?
The law does not define a “belt holster”; the law just states you must carry your handgun in a “shoulder or belt holster.” A “drop down” holster attached to your belt is considered to be a belt holster.
http://www.houstontx.gov/police/open_carry/
by oljames3
Tue May 19, 2020 10:18 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Is this legal open carry?
Replies: 31
Views: 22301

Re: Is this legal open carry?

Papa_Tiger wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 9:18 am
Tex1961 wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 9:01 am
Papa_Tiger wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 8:12 am
Texas Penal Code Sec. 46.035 wrote: UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally displays the handgun in plain view of another person in a public place. It is an exception to the application of this subsection that the handgun was partially or wholly visible but was carried in a shoulder or belt holster by the license holder.
That is all the legal definition we receive in the law. I don't think any rational DA would accept charges from an officer if you were out in public like that.
Doesn't the new LTC laws (open carry) nullify that subsection?
The bold, red section is open carry. :lol:
:iagree:

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