TexasCHLforum.com

Srnewby wrote:

Dragonfighter wrote:It's been a long time since I have read and posted on this board and it is late. I will try my best to sound coherent. First let me state that because of numerous food allergies my family cannot safely eat out anywhere. Before we knew this, Whataburger was a favorite. So I simply do not have a dog in this particular fight. But I do have an opinion.

First, open carry. I am ecstatic that Texas finally has open carry for several reasons. The biggie for me is taking away the power of an anti LEO trying to make a case if you accidently expose your weapon. Then there is the comfort while doing things like yard work. Sure that is in my own yard but who among us can do their entire yard without stepping into the street to turn the mower around or edge along the curb? And there is convenience. I OC'd in VA last Spring because I had forgotten to pack something and needed to run to a store AFTER I had downgraded my dress. It was nice not to have to dress around the weapon and just clip it on and go. FWIW, no one seemed to notice or care. And finally, OC will allow all of the picnic guns to be displayed without fear of an errant complaint ruining it. So yes, OC is a good thing but not one I will likely employ...at least very often. It just doesn't make good tactical sense to me as a general rule.

Second, private property rights. I am one who believes whole heartedly that there is a difference between private property with limited access and private property open to the general public AND lacking access control. If you allow anyone unfettered access to your property, the ONLY people that are being turned around are the law abiding, trained and licensed. Without access control measures your business is vulnerable to mayhem; the more so if you advertise that no sheep dogs are allowed. So then the argument is, "They don't want your money, go somewhere else." What if there is no where else? As I already said, my family is replete with numerous food allergies and sensitivities. There is simply no way for us to get what we need without having to cross the threshold of a prohibited place at some point. I guess I go unprotected. After all, "their property their rules." Does this have anything to do with Whataburger? Not directly, but since it has been brought up here...

So what about Whataburger? Whataburger has been pressured into declaring some kind policy regarding OC and have done so (Given the antics of OCT & Co. I am a bit surprised we even got OC in Texas). What Whataburger did, as has been hammered to death on this thread, is say they will not welcome open carry in their store. The procedures outlined in the "memo" are not confrontational and more importantly they are NOT forbidding carry. They just don't want us scaring the sheep. Out of sight, out of mind. I believe they have walked the tight rope of compromise very skillfully. I cannot eat there, but if I could I would.

jmra wrote:

Cjwglock19 wrote:Guess I'm in the minority... They are asking you not to carry openly. They are not asking you not to carry. The are respecting your right, just asking you to respect their wish in the process.

But I don't think you are in the minority.

Taypo wrote:

gljjt wrote:

Javier730 wrote:

gljjt wrote:

gljjt wrote:

Javier730 wrote:

gljjt wrote:

Jim Beaux wrote:

Double Naught Spy wrote:For those of you who think that when a business opens their private property doors to the public that they lose some of their private property rights, you are 100% correct.

You are also 100% wrong in thinking that they lose control over the gun issue, however. It is all stipulated in the law. How hard is that to understand? It isn't you who is being discriminated against, but your gun. Your gun has no rights and your right to carry a gun in somebody else's business stops at the door if that is what they wish.

A business loses certain rights being open to the public and the public loses certain rights when going onto the property of another individual or entity.

Explain what rights are lost.

Free speech. Bad mouth a business on their property and see what happens. Continually have vocal outbursts in a movie theater and see what happens. Preach in mall and see what happens.

You do not lose your right to free speech. The businesses have the right to kick you out is what happens. You can be asked to leave and you can go on bad mouthing or preaching.

You are playing with semantics. No you haven't lost your true free speech rights, but you don't have the same "rights" on private property that you have on your property or most public property.

By your argument, if the government restricts our firearms to our own homes, we don't lose our 2nd amendment rights, after all you can always go ho me!

There is a big difference between what the government restricts and what businesses restrict on their property. You are playing with semantics.

Nope. You are missing the point. The point is Constitutionally defined freedoms are not absolute.

The right to OC in Whataburger is Constitutionally defined?

Javier730 wrote:

gljjt wrote:

gljjt wrote:

Javier730 wrote:

gljjt wrote:

Jim Beaux wrote:

Double Naught Spy wrote:For those of you who think that when a business opens their private property doors to the public that they lose some of their private property rights, you are 100% correct.

You are also 100% wrong in thinking that they lose control over the gun issue, however. It is all stipulated in the law. How hard is that to understand? It isn't you who is being discriminated against, but your gun. Your gun has no rights and your right to carry a gun in somebody else's business stops at the door if that is what they wish.

A business loses certain rights being open to the public and the public loses certain rights when going onto the property of another individual or entity.

Explain what rights are lost.

Free speech. Bad mouth a business on their property and see what happens. Continually have vocal outbursts in a movie theater and see what happens. Preach in mall and see what happens.

You do not lose your right to free speech. The businesses have the right to kick you out is what happens. You can be asked to leave and you can go on bad mouthing or preaching.

You are playing with semantics. No you haven't lost your true free speech rights, but you don't have the same "rights" on private property that you have on your property or most public property.

By your argument, if the government restricts our firearms to our own homes, we don't lose our 2nd amendment rights, after all you can always go ho me!

There is a big difference between what the government restricts and what businesses restrict on their property. You are playing with semantics.

gljjt wrote:

Javier730 wrote:

gljjt wrote:

Jim Beaux wrote:

Double Naught Spy wrote:For those of you who think that when a business opens their private property doors to the public that they lose some of their private property rights, you are 100% correct.

You are also 100% wrong in thinking that they lose control over the gun issue, however. It is all stipulated in the law. How hard is that to understand? It isn't you who is being discriminated against, but your gun. Your gun has no rights and your right to carry a gun in somebody else's business stops at the door if that is what they wish.

A business loses certain rights being open to the public and the public loses certain rights when going onto the property of another individual or entity.

Explain what rights are lost.

Free speech. Bad mouth a business on their property and see what happens. Continually have vocal outbursts in a movie theater and see what happens. Preach in mall and see what happens.

You do not lose your right to free speech. The businesses have the right to kick you out is what happens. You can be asked to leave and you can go on bad mouthing or preaching.

You are playing with semantics. No you haven't lost your true free speech rights, but you don't have the same "rights" on private property that you have on your property or most public property.

Javier730 wrote:

gljjt wrote:

Jim Beaux wrote:

Double Naught Spy wrote:For those of you who think that when a business opens their private property doors to the public that they lose some of their private property rights, you are 100% correct.

You are also 100% wrong in thinking that they lose control over the gun issue, however. It is all stipulated in the law. How hard is that to understand? It isn't you who is being discriminated against, but your gun. Your gun has no rights and your right to carry a gun in somebody else's business stops at the door if that is what they wish.

A business loses certain rights being open to the public and the public loses certain rights when going onto the property of another individual or entity.

Explain what rights are lost.

Free speech. Bad mouth a business on their property and see what happens. Continually have vocal outbursts in a movie theater and see what happens. Preach in mall and see what happens.

You do not lose your right to free speech. The businesses have the right to kick you out is what happens. You can be asked to leave and you can go on bad mouthing or preaching.

Jim Beaux wrote:

Double Naught Spy wrote:For those of you who think that when a business opens their private property doors to the public that they lose some of their private property rights, you are 100% correct.

You are also 100% wrong in thinking that they lose control over the gun issue, however. It is all stipulated in the law. How hard is that to understand? It isn't you who is being discriminated against, but your gun. Your gun has no rights and your right to carry a gun in somebody else's business stops at the door if that is what they wish.

A business loses certain rights being open to the public and the public loses certain rights when going onto the property of another individual or entity.

Explain what rights are lost.

Jim Beaux wrote:I have a problem here.

Im not a fan of OC & dont plan to ever OC - but the reality is Whataburger is infringing on 2A rights - and some here are ok with it cuz it doesnt directly affect them....AT THIS TIME...

"Then they came for me"