TexasCHLforum.com

Wes wrote:
Back on subject, regardless of where I am, if I know I'm drinking more than a beer or two the gun isn't gonna be with me. There is no acceptable case IMO to do so. Impaired or intoxicated or whatever you might argue isn't legal, a person still isn't in full control. No matter how seasoned a drinker they claim to be. I'm not risking my life or liberty over a few beers.

Just out of curiosity, do you drive in situations involving alcohol where you would not carry?

un0fficial wrote:Been meaning to ask this. If I go to a restaurant with my family and have 1 (maybe 2) beers, are you still legally okay to carry as long as you remain under the legal limit?

There is legal limit for intoxication. It is unlawful for you to carry while intoxicated. I know by the term "legal limit" you refer to .08% BAC. You will not be offered a breath test for carrying while intoxication. The definition listed earlier in this thread will be used. It is a subjective definition. So are you intoxicated after 2 beers? No one here can tell you. I doubt it, unless you are a 60 pound Middle Schooler, .

A person can be impaired under .08%.

WildBill wrote:

jbarn wrote:

WildBill wrote:

gringo pistolero wrote:

jbarn wrote:.08% is not a limit

Yes it is. Anyone "having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more" is intoxicated in Texas whether or not they show it.

It is not a lower limit, but an upper limit.

It isn't an upper limit either.

A limit, like a speed limit, means anything above that is a violation and anything below is not. That is not what .08% means.

I know what limit means - and this is a limit. A limit does not mean that there is a minimum and maximum.

A limit means there has to be either a minimum of max. Otherwise, there is no limit.

Maybe I should have been more clear - anything above 0.08% is legally intoxicated. Below 0.08%, you may be intoxicated.

That is a great, simple explanation.

gringo pistolero wrote:

jbarn wrote:A limit, like a speed limit, means anything above that is a violation and anything below is not. That is not what .08% means.

I would have expected somebody who claims to be a TCLEOSE/TCOLE instructor would know that a motorist can be cited and convicted of speeding for driving below the posted limit, depending on the circumstances. Likewise, somebody can be intoxicated below 0.08 BAC depending on the circumstances.

Now you are splitting hairs, but since you want to go there I certainly am hapoy to indulge you.

For this example we will take the case of a controlled access highway with a posted speed limit of 60. Given clear weather and moderate traffic an operator is not speeding at 60 MPH. A LEO could not cite the person based on the speed of 60 alone. At 61, the person could be cited.

THAT is a limit.

Take a person who is stopped by a LEO for a traffic violation. The LEO developes Probable Cause to believe the person is intoxicated based on observation and standardized field sobriety test arrests the person. The person has yet to exhibit any BAC level because no test was given. If the "limit" were .08% BAC, how could the officer arrest with no evidence of .08? He arrests based on the 1st definition of intoxication, which is subjective:

"A person not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance into the body; of two or more into the person. "

The person is arrested for this definition. Once arrested, a test, breath or blood, is given to determine an alcohol concentration of the person. Take an example of a person who refuses to give a sample. There is no way to prove BAC. The person would be prosecuted under the definition anove. This subjective definition would be up to the jury to decide.

However, with a test sample a BAC can be obtained. If the person is .08% or greater, then the statutory definition of intoxication has been met, and the burden of the element of intoxication has been met. In other words, the person is automatically presumed to be intoxicated. It is an objective definition. But what if a person has a BAC below .08%? Does that mean the person gets to go home free? No. The state can use the subjective definition to prosecute. As a LEO, I obtwined convictions for people under .08%. If .08% were a "limit" then any BAC below that would not be intoxicated. That is just not the case.

Despite what the media has conditioned us to think, there is no legal limit for intoxication. For the case of a person violating PC 46.035, a BAC will not even be considered. The first, and subjective definition" will be used.

The OP asked about being over .08 and carrying his gun. His actual BAC is irrelevant to an offense under 46.035.

Abraham wrote:What about carry a legal length knife and being intoxicated?

Legal/Illegal?

P.S. a little thread jack I know, but kinda/sorta in the same vein...

The carry of the knife is not proscribed by law, intoxicated or not. Penal code 46.035 is what makes carrying a handgun while intoxicated umlawful. It does not address anything but handguns carried by holders of Concealed Handgun Licenses.

WildBill wrote:

gringo pistolero wrote:

jbarn wrote:.08% is not a limit

Yes it is. Anyone "having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more" is intoxicated in Texas whether or not they show it.

It is not a lower limit, but an upper limit.

It isn't an upper limit either.

A limit, like a speed limit, means anything above that is a violation and anything below is not. That is not what .08% means.

gringo pistolero wrote:

jbarn wrote:.08% is not a limit

Yes it is. Anyone "having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more" is intoxicated in Texas whether or not they show it.

A common misunderstanding. I did not write that .08% is not intoxicated. I wrote that .08% is not a limit. If you look carefully, I wrote that a person can be intoxicated without being .08% BAC. a person at below .08 can be intoxicated. What 08% is, is a presumed level of intoxication. It is not a limit. If it were a limit, a person under that could not be intoxicated, and we all know that isn't true.

There are two definitions of intoxicated.

WyattP wrote:

Maxwell wrote:OK, I'll say it. If you are going to drink, let me rephrase that, if you are going to get drunk do not carry...

You say you are at "your buddy's house." How are you going to get home? Drive? Take a Cab so you are now "drunk" in public with a gun?

It's not worth the felony rap.

Okay I'll break it down more. I live in apartment complex where there have been 30+ break ins to cars since August (despite our fences/gates). Plus we live extremely close to a rather underprivileged portion of town. I'm in an off campus apartment complex to a University I attend. 99% of all my friends/teammates live in the same complex. I'm the biggest person against drinking and driving so I was just wondering. I have seen that other states have upholded the right to defend yourself despite your "intoxication".

The law refernced here has nothing to do with defending yourself. Those laws are in chapter 9 of the penal code, and they do not remove any self defense justification based on intoxication.

The carry laws prevent you from carry under a CHL while intoxicated.

WyattP wrote:Let's say I go to my buddy's house and go above the "intoxicated" limit of .08 at his house. Am I allowed to carry? He knows I carry and has said It's okay to have my gun on his property. If the answer is yes, does the whole intoxicated concept just apply to public areas? Thanks. Sorry if this is a stupid question, because yes there is such thing as a stupid question.

.08% is not a limit, and a person need not reach that BAC to be intoxicated.

You need a CHL to caary a handgun on property that is not yours or that is not under your control. That means you need a CHL to carry at your buddy's house. Under penal code 46.035, it is an offense to carry while intoxicated. No restriction to public places is made in the law; therfore, it is unlawful to be intoxicated while carrying your handgun at your buddy's hoise.