TexasCHLforum.com

ET-Ret wrote:I took a person to apply for food stamps in Tarrant County 4/2/2014. There is strange looking 30.06 sign at the door and I do not believe any court or police activites
are going on in the Building. When you go in you are met with a Rental Guard service which said you must be Id to go in the office where they take computer applications
I handed him a chl for ID and he took it without question. I asked him about the sign and found he did not seem to understand what it was or that he cares They are not armed and
could not speak good English. I hope someone can give me some info because my understanding is the sign is not Legal.
Tarrant county has a lot of different office in the general area. 1501 Circle Dr Ft Worth. 76119
Thanks ET-ret

There is nothing illegal about an improperly posted 30.06 sign. Can you better describe the "strange looking" 30.06 sign? I have seen some county buildings in different counties where JP courts are located post the 30.06. I assume to warn CHL holders about the JP courts.

puma guy wrote:

jbarn wrote:

Fibonacci wrote:

jbarn wrote:

Fibonacci wrote:The Kurth Library in Lufkin has text on the door prohibiting firearms and the text refers to section 30.05! It does not include the 30.06 language.

Is it even possible, by definition, to trespass on public property?

Of course it is.

However, it is a defense under 30.05 if the reason for the prohibited entry was carry under a CHL

"Of course it is."

It seems to me a lot less certain than you state. The first paragraph of 30.05 Criminal Trespass talks in specific language about being on the property of another. How can public property be property of another?

§ 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an
offense if he enters or remains on or in property, including an
aircraft or other vehicle, of another without effective consent or
he enters or remains in a building of another without effective
consent ........

You don't own the public property. The courts have long interpreted that the governing bodies are in control of the property. This is long held.

You quote 30.05 as a defense to trespassing under 30.06, but since 30.06 was passed it seems to me that's moot. There is no trespass on government property for a CHL per 30.06 exceptions. That would be like having a law that says the maximum speed limit can be reduced to 30 mph along with some language that says it's a defense to prosecution,etc. But then subsequent statutes make an exception for that specific area that no longer allows the speed limit to be reduced. Someone decides to leave the 30 MPH sign up and you are cited for exceeding it. The new statute negates the need for any "defense to prosecution" originally set forth, since it's unenforceable per the new code. IANAL, but I doubt an attorney would use the language in 30.05 to defend a charge of trespass on government property that's a exception under 30.06, but rather would cite the exceptions in 30.06.
30.06. at allow e are originally specified at 30.06 making tand make it 40 mph. with

I don't know what speed limits have to do with anything. ...He asked if one could trespass on "public property", and one certainly can.

Fibonacci wrote:

jbarn wrote:

Fibonacci wrote:The Kurth Library in Lufkin has text on the door prohibiting firearms and the text refers to section 30.05! It does not include the 30.06 language.

Is it even possible, by definition, to trespass on public property?

Of course it is.

However, it is a defense under 30.05 if the reason for the prohibited entry was carry under a CHL

"Of course it is."

It seems to me a lot less certain than you state. The first paragraph of 30.05 Criminal Trespass talks in specific language about being on the property of another. How can public property be property of another?

§ 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an
offense if he enters or remains on or in property, including an
aircraft or other vehicle, of another without effective consent or
he enters or remains in a building of another without effective
consent ........

You don't own the public property. The courts have long interpreted that the governing bodies are in control of the property. This is long held.

Fibonacci wrote:The Kurth Library in Lufkin has text on the door prohibiting firearms and the text refers to section 30.05! It does not include the 30.06 language.

Is it even possible, by definition, to trespass on public property?

Of course it is.

However, it is a defense under 30.05 if the reason for the prohibited entry was carry under a CHL

SlowDave wrote:

jbarn wrote: And on a second note regarding guns shows, I recently had a conversation with another instructor and this was the main idea;

Why do I need a CHL to carry a handgun? Because Penal Code (PC) 46.02 makes it unlawful to carry a handgun unless on my premises, premises under my control, motor vehicle or watercraft. Do I need a CHL to carry a handgun on or about my person at a gun show? Clearly not. People carry all sorts of handguns at gun shows. I suspect due to PC 46.15 (b) (3) (lawful sporting event) or the case law regarding gun stores, etc.

Regardless, no CHL is required to carry at a gun show. A person carrying a handgun at a gun show is not carrying under the authority of a CHL. None is required. Therefore, 30.06 does not apply.

My initial reaction to that was it must be wrong. Try that and see what happens. But once I sat back and thought about it, I realized he is right. Isn't he?
TIA

Carrying a loaded, concealed weapon at a gun show WOULD need to be under the authority of a CHL, as far as I know.

Ok, why? I am not talking about policy, but law. Remember, Texas does not allow the carry of handguns except for specific circumstances, right? Under PC 46.02 those are on your own premises or premises under your control, or inside of or directly enroute to a motor vehicle or watercraft you own or is under your control. A gun show matches neither, right?

Under PC 46.15 (b), the exceptions to 46.02 are traveling, while engaged in lawful hunting, fishing or other sporting activity...., with CHL (required to be concealed) or as security, or on duty in the armed forces....

How do they people carrying unloaded, non-concealed handguns carry at a gun show? Why are they not violating 46.02? The same laws for them apply to carrying a gun concealed there.

Think of it like a gun range. Can you carry a handgun at a gun range? Yes. Is there a law preventing you from carrying concealed at a gun range without a CHL?

Sporting events are specifically ruled non-carry zones for CHLs. The only thing I can think of close to that is the verbage about being allowed to have a loaded weapon if you are a participant in a shooting competition, but that's not even close to a gun show. (Apologize for being too lazy to look up the pertinent sections.)

No, only specific sporting events are off limits. The "shooting competition" you are thinking of in the CHL laws are for School Sponsored events.

If I am at a sporting event where handguns are commonly used, like sport shooting at a gun range, I do not need a CHL nor do I carry under a CHL.

Keith B wrote:

As for a CHL to carry concealed at the gun show, if 46.15 is used as the exception for carry in a gun show, then you would be correct. However, it is another area that has no case law, so you may again become the test case if you concealed carry pass the 30.06 sign and get called on it.

There has to be some exception though, right? Sort of like for gun stores?

I saw some case law about gun stores once, I'll have to see if I can find it.

Keith B wrote:

Tic Tac wrote:Improperly posted 30.06 signs? How about every city or county convention center that SAXET rents?

Those are SAXET's signs, not the city's. If you want to be a test case and can afford it, then go ahead and carry past them.

Keith, doesn't 30.06 ( I don't have it in front of me) make locations owned or leased by a government entity not applicable to 30.06? To my reasoning, if the location is owned by a government entity it matters not who temporarily rents the space. I have kept an eye out for any case law regarding this, but have not found any. Is there something I am missing?

And on a second note regarding guns shows, I recently had a conversation with another instructor and this was the main idea;

Why do I need a CHL to carry a handgun? Because Penal Code (PC) 46.02 makes it unlawful to carry a handgun unless on my premises, premises under my control, motor vehicle or watercraft. Do I need a CHL to carry a handgun on or about my person at a gun show? Clearly not. People carry all sorts of handguns at gun shows. I suspect due to PC 46.15 (b) (3) (lawful sporting event) or the case law regarding gun stores, etc.

Regardless, no CHL is required to carry at a gun show. A person carrying a handgun at a gun show is not carrying under the authority of a CHL. None is required. Therefore, 30.06 does not apply.

My initial reaction to that was it must be wrong. Try that and see what happens. But once I sat back and thought about it, I realized he is right. Isn't he?


I am interested in others thoughts on this, other than the rhetoric of "let me know how that works out for you". I am looking for the actual legalities.

TIA